American Hatred

Are the polititians doing a good job could you do better, debate your views with others
Fat_Tony
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Postby Fat_Tony on Wed May 30, 2007 5:45 am

Blond Adult Girl wrote:
Fat_Tony wrote:Oh no, now two "Neo-Cons" on the loose in here. :lol:

Hey, you doing anything this Saturday? Perhaps we can go out, get a drink, and help stage the next conspiracy for the New World Order, maybe something involving the French snail industry? :wink:


Sounds great!

Want to visit a gun store afterwards and buy some AK47's? I heard liberals only fight with swords and pitchforks-cause they don't believe in owning guns! :lol:

Then we can head over to Guantanamo Bay and have some "fun" with those POW's!


AKA47's? I won't touch those commie guns. Nope. It's good 'ol colt .45's and AR-15's for me. So we can swing by a local gun show, buy a few, and then do a few drive-by shootings of the ACLU head quarters, maybe a bombing or two of an abortion clinic, and for good measure club a few baby seals, and do it all while traveling in a big, gasoline-guzzling, green-house gas emitting SUV, yelling yee-hah! out the window as we drive along.

Let's see. What other dumb liberalized view am I forgetting about conservatives?

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Postby Blond Adult Girl on Wed May 30, 2007 10:45 am

Fat_Tony wrote:
Blond Adult Girl wrote:
Fat_Tony wrote:Oh no, now two "Neo-Cons" on the loose in here. :lol:

Hey, you doing anything this Saturday? Perhaps we can go out, get a drink, and help stage the next conspiracy for the New World Order, maybe something involving the French snail industry? :wink:


Sounds great!

Want to visit a gun store afterwards and buy some AK47's? I heard liberals only fight with swords and pitchforks-cause they don't believe in owning guns! :lol:

Then we can head over to Guantanamo Bay and have some "fun" with those POW's!


AKA47's? I won't touch those commie guns. Nope. It's good 'ol colt .45's and AR-15's for me. So we can swing by a local gun show, buy a few, and then do a few drive-by shootings of the ACLU head quarters, maybe a bombing or two of an abortion clinic, and for good measure club a few baby seals, and do it all while traveling in a big, gasoline-guzzling, green-house gas emitting SUV, yelling yee-hah! out the window as we drive along.

Let's see. What other dumb liberalized view am I forgetting about conservatives?


We then must steal every condom from every teenager in America and show up at gay rights ralies and call them "faggs"! :roll:
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elliott20
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Postby elliott20 on Wed May 30, 2007 2:57 pm

well, judging by Rosie O'Donnell's little rant, I don't think Neo-cons are going to be stuck with the rep of believing in conspiracy theories for too long.

sometimes I feel like we ought to thank the extreme ends of our respective political spectrum for making it look like you either have to be 1) a tree hugging pinko commie lib or 2) an insane war mongering gun nut who hates everything that is not christian. And god forbid if you're a moderate, then you just lack balls or something.
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Postby Fat_Tony on Wed May 30, 2007 11:55 pm

elliott20 wrote:well, judging by Rosie O'Donnell's little rant, I don't think Neo-cons are going to be stuck with the rep of believing in conspiracy theories for too long.

sometimes I feel like we ought to thank the extreme ends of our respective political spectrum for making it look like you either have to be 1) a tree hugging pinko commie lib or 2) an insane war mongering gun nut who hates everything that is not christian. And god forbid if you're a moderate, then you just lack balls or something.


Totally agree. The extremists have been given too much a voice to speak for everyone. People like Bill Maher and O'Railey, each respectively speaking for liberals and conservatives, are so extreme that all it does is perpetuate the idiotic stereotypes of someone who has political leanings to either the left or right. Liberal and conservative are each, I think, dirty words today.

And you hit on something else that I agree with: namely one is "cowardly," as dumbass O'Donnell put it if you are a moderate for not taking a firm stance. Most people I think have a spectrum of political thoughts, some decidedly liberal and others more conservative. Overall, I am more conservative, but I also have very liberal thinking, such as gay marriages and a woman's right to choose. If were in the south, I would be cast a liberal, in other regions like the northeast, I would be called a "neo-con" because I support the war on terror and believe in fiscal conservatism and support what is often derided as "family values."

I think most people are this way, their political views hardly if ever stagnant and fixed, and more flexible, even though overall they can identify with one greater political leaning than another. To me, being 100% anything and politically intransigent is the hallmark of being radical. And I put Maher and O'Railey in the same camp, as each is a radical of opposite extremes, often dumming down complex issues and reducing them to either Bush-bashing or liberal-bashing.

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Postby elliott20 on Thu May 31, 2007 3:19 pm

Fat_Tony wrote:
elliott20 wrote:well, judging by Rosie O'Donnell's little rant, I don't think Neo-cons are going to be stuck with the rep of believing in conspiracy theories for too long.

sometimes I feel like we ought to thank the extreme ends of our respective political spectrum for making it look like you either have to be 1) a tree hugging pinko commie lib or 2) an insane war mongering gun nut who hates everything that is not christian. And god forbid if you're a moderate, then you just lack balls or something.


Totally agree. The extremists have been given too much a voice to speak for everyone. People like Bill Maher and O'Railey, each respectively speaking for liberals and conservatives, are so extreme that all it does is perpetuate the idiotic stereotypes of someone who has political leanings to either the left or right. Liberal and conservative are each, I think, dirty words today.

And you hit on something else that I agree with: namely one is "cowardly," as dumbass O'Donnell put it if you are a moderate for not taking a firm stance. Most people I think have a spectrum of political thoughts, some decidedly liberal and others more conservative. Overall, I am more conservative, but I also have very liberal thinking, such as gay marriages and a woman's right to choose. If were in the south, I would be cast a liberal, in other regions like the northeast, I would be called a "neo-con" because I support the war on terror and believe in fiscal conservatism and support what is often derided as "family values."

I think most people are this way, their political views hardly if ever stagnant and fixed, and more flexible, even though overall they can identify with one greater political leaning than another. To me, being 100% anything and politically intransigent is the hallmark of being radical. And I put Maher and O'Railey in the same camp, as each is a radical of opposite extremes, often dumming down complex issues and reducing them to either Bush-bashing or liberal-bashing.

the thing is, we ironically will pay more attention to people like her because they're just easier targets. It's kind of the same reason why people constantly make fun of Bush's vocabulary... it's just too easy.

But also, dividing party lines down the center just makes it easier for the common guy who doesn't have time to listen to all the speeches, debates, and articles to just make a quick and fast decision. Combine this with the fact that our respective parties feel the NEED to market their parties, we end up with parties who present the most extreme and simplified version of their party stances, and people who are too lazy to dig deeper. the end result? people end up voting on an image that is both extreme and impractical.

So in your case? You're screwed. You either have to vote for the gun totting anti-gay, anti-abortion conservatives, or you have to vote for the socialist elitest economic planners. It's a lose-lose.
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Postby Fat_Tony on Thu May 31, 2007 7:39 pm

If ever the phrase "the lesser of two evils" rings true, it is during election time at the polls. What you describe quite well is exactly what I felt at the last election. But I could never bring myself to vote for Al Gore or Kerrry.

And what you said about Bush is how I feel. He is dopey acting and speaking. He is not at all an eloquent speaker. His facial mannerisms, accompanied by those shoulder-shrugs and furrowing of the brows, gives him an arrogant, dismissive quality, which I do not believe he is either truly possessing or intends to project. He speaks in a simpler language without trying to impress I feel, and often it comes across as condescending to those that do not like him. So it is all too easy to poke fun of him and laugh and say he is an idiot and mock his mispronunciations of nuclear. Liberals love shouting that the war is lost and criticize his policies and believe that committing what really amounts to little more than a school yard mockery of him is adding anything meaningful or a viable alternative to policy.

I might not agree with everything he has done, and don't, but overall I think he's done a fair job given the circumstances. I would still give him a C- for Iraq though, as I would Congress and the Iraqi government, and the UN. And I think that is being more than kind to the latter parties, to whom have an equal responsibility to helping improve the situation.

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Postby Blond Adult Girl on Thu May 31, 2007 8:41 pm

elliott20 wrote:
Fat_Tony wrote:
elliott20 wrote:well, judging by Rosie O'Donnell's little rant, I don't think Neo-cons are going to be stuck with the rep of believing in conspiracy theories for too long.

sometimes I feel like we ought to thank the extreme ends of our respective political spectrum for making it look like you either have to be 1) a tree hugging pinko commie lib or 2) an insane war mongering gun nut who hates everything that is not christian. And god forbid if you're a moderate, then you just lack balls or something.


Totally agree. The extremists have been given too much a voice to speak for everyone. People like Bill Maher and O'Railey, each respectively speaking for liberals and conservatives, are so extreme that all it does is perpetuate the idiotic stereotypes of someone who has political leanings to either the left or right. Liberal and conservative are each, I think, dirty words today.

And you hit on something else that I agree with: namely one is "cowardly," as dumbass O'Donnell put it if you are a moderate for not taking a firm stance. Most people I think have a spectrum of political thoughts, some decidedly liberal and others more conservative. Overall, I am more conservative, but I also have very liberal thinking, such as gay marriages and a woman's right to choose. If were in the south, I would be cast a liberal, in other regions like the northeast, I would be called a "neo-con" because I support the war on terror and believe in fiscal conservatism and support what is often derided as "family values."

I think most people are this way, their political views hardly if ever stagnant and fixed, and more flexible, even though overall they can identify with one greater political leaning than another. To me, being 100% anything and politically intransigent is the hallmark of being radical. And I put Maher and O'Railey in the same camp, as each is a radical of opposite extremes, often dumming down complex issues and reducing them to either Bush-bashing or liberal-bashing.

the thing is, we ironically will pay more attention to people like her because they're just easier targets. It's kind of the same reason why people constantly make fun of Bush's vocabulary... it's just too easy.

But also, dividing party lines down the center just makes it easier for the common guy who doesn't have time to listen to all the speeches, debates, and articles to just make a quick and fast decision. Combine this with the fact that our respective parties feel the NEED to market their parties, we end up with parties who present the most extreme and simplified version of their party stances, and people who are too lazy to dig deeper. the end result? people end up voting on an image that is both extreme and impractical.

So in your case? You're screwed. You either have to vote for the gun totting anti-gay, anti-abortion conservatives, or you have to vote for the socialist elitest economic planners. It's a lose-lose.


Keep in mind though, Elliot, "extreme" is all relative. Jerry Falwell would consider you extreme, while Bill Press would consider Mr Bond to be "extreme." It's all a matter of where you stand on the political spectrum.

As for me, I don't think its a loose loose situation. I don't think that any great president will come out of the 2008 election, but i can see Guliani or Mitt Romney being a solid leader.
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Postby Guest on Mon Jun 04, 2007 4:59 am

Hatred is gained as much by good works as by evil.

Men shrink less from offending one who inspires love than one who inspires fear.

Since it is difficult to join them together, it is safer to be feared than to be loved when one of the two must be lacking.

The fact is that a man who wants to act virtuously in every way necessarily comes to grief among so many who are not virtuous.

There is no avoiding war; it can only be postponed to the advantage of others.

Niccolo Machiavelli

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American Foreign Policy for Dummies

Postby Guest on Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:48 pm

http://www.vsubhash.com/writeups/american_foreign_policy.asp

Freedom™ kills more people than cancer. Here is a survival guide for people living outside the United States

American Foreign Policy For Dummies Freedom kills more people than cancer.

* We have a huge arms industry. We need to keep them in business. That is why WE ARE CONTINUOUSLY AT WAR WITH SOMEONE. When there are no enemies, we invent them.

* If you have any common sense, you cannot be our friend. You are anti-American.

* Britain is our best friend. Replace your foreign ministry with a fax machine and you can be a best friend too.

* 90% of our propaganda consists of lies. The other 10% consists of the words "international community."

* "International community" means United States, Britain and the Republic of Vanuatu.

* "Coalition" is another big word we use. It means United States, Britain and... and... and... Poland! Don't forget Poland!

* Like the Nazis, we like to repeat the same lies again and again until our audience accepts it as truth.

* Unlike the Nazis, we get others do our dirty work. So, our crimes do not get easy publicity. Besides, history favours the victors.

* Soft Power Lesson #1: Thanks to Hollywood, we managed to save more Europeans from Nazi occupation in films than Soviet Union did for real.

* Soft Power Lesson #2: More people have been inspired by Karl Marx than all American thinkers combined. But, that's not a big problem. So long as the rest of the world follows our lead in news coverage, everything's fine.

* Soft Power Lesson #3: Even the tiniest poorest nations in Africa buy oil with hard currency. When United States, the superpower, shops for oil, all it has to do is print more paper - counterfeit portraits of our dead presidents a.k.a. the U.S. Dollar.

* In bilateral and multilateral negotiations with us, a give-and-take policy must be followed. You give and give and give... And, we take and take and take... Always.

* The USA may have been called a capitalist paradise or a land of gold. But, when our tough and sophisticated multinational companies to your Third World country to do business there, they want
o soveriegn guarantees to back every investment
o guaranteed profits written into the contract, which would no sane Western goverment would even involve itself with and which no Third World country's populace can bear
o protection from risks associated with business
o cheap credit from local FIs (Financial Institutions) to fund their "investments"
o precedence for shareholders over creditors, in case their loss-making operations and assets have to be sold

* If your country has any oil, then you don't have to call us; we will call you - as "friends," "allies", "sponsors of terrorism", and "proliferators of WMD." Choose your pick. Our ultimate aim is to liberate your oil.

* Lack of freedom, democracy, and human rights will become a problem if we don't have access to your oil. This is why oil monarchies in the Middle East are our friends while countries like Sudan are not.

* Even if your country has no resources to exploit or markets to flood, we will want to build a base there to harass your more resource-rich neighbours.

* BTW, we have troops stationed in over 120 countries. If you are a country, then we may already have a base there.

* Problem being touted as solutions? Well, that's the hallmark of the U.S. military.

* We have no problem supporting dictators - Pinochet, Pol Pot, Suharto, etc. But, you have to remember that we treat our friends worse than our enemies - Saddam, Noriega, etc... but still we urge you to be nice to us.

* We had no problem with communism, except that they did not let us exploit their markets and resources.

* We had no problem with Nazism, except when we were attacked by their allies. Even after the war, we helped former Nazi collaborators in Europe get back to power just so that popular communist parties were defeated.

* We had no problem with Islamic fundamentalism or terrorism. In fact, we invented it to trouble the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and further in Central Asia. However, Islamic terrorism has come back to haunt us. Big opportunists that we are, we have used this misfortune to strike at Iraq, bringing billions of dollars to war profiteers, such as contract companies (Bechtel, Halliburton), arms manufacturers (Lockheed Martin, Boeing), and of course oil companies.

* In Latin America, our Ambassador will be the de facto leader. Our companies will be the prime beneficiaries of the government.

* People in Latin America don't know how to handle democracy. So, we will take care of everything - preparing electoral rolls, conducting opinion polls, campaining, monitoring, the actual elections and most importantly counting of votes.

* If you elect leftist regimes to power, then we will ruin your economy by cutting off all foreign aid and prevent investors from other countries from doing business in your country. We will raise rightist militias, who will start trafficking drugs to United States and Europe under our full protection, buy weapons from abroad and then indulge in an shameless orgy of violence, terror and mass murder. Nothing is beneath us. We've torched schools, hospitals and churches to make leftists look bad. If we can get a rightist regime in place, there will be death squads or secret services (Cuba, Indonesia, Nicaragua, and several others) who will maintain the peace.

* Being a democracy does not mean you are safe. Your politicians can be in power only if they serve our interests; not yours. Else, our ambassador in your country will bring together disparate opposition parties and make them rally behind a single candidate (Viktor Yushchenko, Shalikvashili). Of course, we will be bribing these traitors with loads of money, sometimes spending even billions to bring about regime change, as in Ukraine.

* If we anyone asks why we are funding politicians in foreign countries, we will say it is to "promote democracy" and justify it as a "noble cause." The idea that democracy is by the people, for the people and of the people has no meaning to us.

* If you act like we tell you to, it is an obvious sign of your being "democratic." Our media will use terms such as "pro-West" and even "liberal" to describe you. If you act like you have a mind of your own, then we will label your government as "anti-democratic" and allege that you came to power only through "election fraud." Our media will characterise your government as a "hardline regime."

* If we cannot use military power to bring down you, there is always "people power" or "youth power" (as demonstrated in Ukraine, Georgia, and Lebanon) to the rescue. Of course, youth power and people power that bring our "colour revolutions" cost a lot of money - which is why we have NGOs, USAID, Freedom House, etc. With our paid supporters making a public nuisance at key city intersections and causing traffic jams, duly elected governments have no option to step down and have a new election scheduled.

* If it looks like our guy's gonna lose, then election monitors/exit pollsters/journalists (many of whom were trained and paid by us) will cry "foul." If our guy does indeed win (by fair means or foul), the elections will be termed as "free."

* "People power" is an American-owned brand. If anyone (say like the leftist Obrador in Mexico) uses it without our permission, we will ignore it and so will our media - and that means - the world. Sometimes, if it is simply impossible to ignore these protests, our propaganda organ (Voice of America) will whine, saying that "people are growing tired of the protests."

* For our oil & gas companies, big countries pose a problem. Their leaders can be notoriously fickle and can put huge investments at risk. Smaller countries, particularly those that can be persuaded to secede from bigger ones, are easier to bully and offer our companies an early mover advantage. Newly formed countries (East Timor, Kosovo, Serbia, etc.) are financially weak and their politicians are always anxious to please us.

* But if in a country we thought we had secured a particular region wants to break free, then obviously different rules will apply. In Trans-Dneister in Georgia for example, ethnic Russians have conducted a plebiscite to break free and join Russia. It is ridiculuous and we will never recognise it. The BTC pipeline passes through the region and we don't want jeopardise anything.

The Komodo dragon is a strange sort of carnivore. Basically, it is a carrion eater i.e. it eats dead animals. Of course, there is nothing strange about an animal eating carrion. What is strange about the Komodo dragon is how it finds its meal when supplies provided by Nature go low.

First, the dragon sneaks up on a live animal such as deer or buffalo when it is busy grazing and bites it. The bitten animal almost always runs away but in a few days its dies and the dragon has a meal ready. How does this happen?

As mentioned earlier, the Komodo dragon eats dead animals (in various stages of decay). Being very poor at table manners, pieces of its meal remain stuck on its serrated jaws and rots there for weeks together. As a result, the dragon's saliva contains a lethal cocktail of deadly bacteria. And, it drools a lot. So, when the dragon bites an animal, its victim dies in a few days of septicemia. Neat, huh? No? Ruined your appetite? Well, American foreign policy ruins entire nations.

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Re: American Foreign Policy for Dummies

Postby Blond Adult Girl on Fri Jun 22, 2007 2:51 pm

. wrote:http://www.vsubhash.com/writeups/american_foreign_policy.asp

Freedom™ kills more people than cancer. Here is a survival guide for people living outside the United States

American Foreign Policy For Dummies Freedom kills more people than cancer.

* We have a huge arms industry. We need to keep them in business. That is why WE ARE CONTINUOUSLY AT WAR WITH SOMEONE. When there are no enemies, we invent them.

* If you have any common sense, you cannot be our friend. You are anti-American.

* Britain is our best friend. Replace your foreign ministry with a fax machine and you can be a best friend too.

* 90% of our propaganda consists of lies. The other 10% consists of the words "international community."

* "International community" means United States, Britain and the Republic of Vanuatu.

* "Coalition" is another big word we use. It means United States, Britain and... and... and... Poland! Don't forget Poland!

* Like the Nazis, we like to repeat the same lies again and again until our audience accepts it as truth.

* Unlike the Nazis, we get others do our dirty work. So, our crimes do not get easy publicity. Besides, history favours the victors.

* Soft Power Lesson #1: Thanks to Hollywood, we managed to save more Europeans from Nazi occupation in films than Soviet Union did for real.

* Soft Power Lesson #2: More people have been inspired by Karl Marx than all American thinkers combined. But, that's not a big problem. So long as the rest of the world follows our lead in news coverage, everything's fine.

* Soft Power Lesson #3: Even the tiniest poorest nations in Africa buy oil with hard currency. When United States, the superpower, shops for oil, all it has to do is print more paper - counterfeit portraits of our dead presidents a.k.a. the U.S. Dollar.

* In bilateral and multilateral negotiations with us, a give-and-take policy must be followed. You give and give and give... And, we take and take and take... Always.

* The USA may have been called a capitalist paradise or a land of gold. But, when our tough and sophisticated multinational companies to your Third World country to do business there, they want
o soveriegn guarantees to back every investment
o guaranteed profits written into the contract, which would no sane Western goverment would even involve itself with and which no Third World country's populace can bear
o protection from risks associated with business
o cheap credit from local FIs (Financial Institutions) to fund their "investments"
o precedence for shareholders over creditors, in case their loss-making operations and assets have to be sold

* If your country has any oil, then you don't have to call us; we will call you - as "friends," "allies", "sponsors of terrorism", and "proliferators of WMD." Choose your pick. Our ultimate aim is to liberate your oil.

* Lack of freedom, democracy, and human rights will become a problem if we don't have access to your oil. This is why oil monarchies in the Middle East are our friends while countries like Sudan are not.

* Even if your country has no resources to exploit or markets to flood, we will want to build a base there to harass your more resource-rich neighbours.

* BTW, we have troops stationed in over 120 countries. If you are a country, then we may already have a base there.

* Problem being touted as solutions? Well, that's the hallmark of the U.S. military.

* We have no problem supporting dictators - Pinochet, Pol Pot, Suharto, etc. But, you have to remember that we treat our friends worse than our enemies - Saddam, Noriega, etc... but still we urge you to be nice to us.

* We had no problem with communism, except that they did not let us exploit their markets and resources.

* We had no problem with Nazism, except when we were attacked by their allies. Even after the war, we helped former Nazi collaborators in Europe get back to power just so that popular communist parties were defeated.

* We had no problem with Islamic fundamentalism or terrorism. In fact, we invented it to trouble the Soviet Union in Afghanistan and further in Central Asia. However, Islamic terrorism has come back to haunt us. Big opportunists that we are, we have used this misfortune to strike at Iraq, bringing billions of dollars to war profiteers, such as contract companies (Bechtel, Halliburton), arms manufacturers (Lockheed Martin, Boeing), and of course oil companies.

* In Latin America, our Ambassador will be the de facto leader. Our companies will be the prime beneficiaries of the government.

* People in Latin America don't know how to handle democracy. So, we will take care of everything - preparing electoral rolls, conducting opinion polls, campaining, monitoring, the actual elections and most importantly counting of votes.

* If you elect leftist regimes to power, then we will ruin your economy by cutting off all foreign aid and prevent investors from other countries from doing business in your country. We will raise rightist militias, who will start trafficking drugs to United States and Europe under our full protection, buy weapons from abroad and then indulge in an shameless orgy of violence, terror and mass murder. Nothing is beneath us. We've torched schools, hospitals and churches to make leftists look bad. If we can get a rightist regime in place, there will be death squads or secret services (Cuba, Indonesia, Nicaragua, and several others) who will maintain the peace.

* Being a democracy does not mean you are safe. Your politicians can be in power only if they serve our interests; not yours. Else, our ambassador in your country will bring together disparate opposition parties and make them rally behind a single candidate (Viktor Yushchenko, Shalikvashili). Of course, we will be bribing these traitors with loads of money, sometimes spending even billions to bring about regime change, as in Ukraine.

* If we anyone asks why we are funding politicians in foreign countries, we will say it is to "promote democracy" and justify it as a "noble cause." The idea that democracy is by the people, for the people and of the people has no meaning to us.

* If you act like we tell you to, it is an obvious sign of your being "democratic." Our media will use terms such as "pro-West" and even "liberal" to describe you. If you act like you have a mind of your own, then we will label your government as "anti-democratic" and allege that you came to power only through "election fraud." Our media will characterise your government as a "hardline regime."

* If we cannot use military power to bring down you, there is always "people power" or "youth power" (as demonstrated in Ukraine, Georgia, and Lebanon) to the rescue. Of course, youth power and people power that bring our "colour revolutions" cost a lot of money - which is why we have NGOs, USAID, Freedom House, etc. With our paid supporters making a public nuisance at key city intersections and causing traffic jams, duly elected governments have no option to step down and have a new election scheduled.

* If it looks like our guy's gonna lose, then election monitors/exit pollsters/journalists (many of whom were trained and paid by us) will cry "foul." If our guy does indeed win (by fair means or foul), the elections will be termed as "free."

* "People power" is an American-owned brand. If anyone (say like the leftist Obrador in Mexico) uses it without our permission, we will ignore it and so will our media - and that means - the world. Sometimes, if it is simply impossible to ignore these protests, our propaganda organ (Voice of America) will whine, saying that "people are growing tired of the protests."

* For our oil & gas companies, big countries pose a problem. Their leaders can be notoriously fickle and can put huge investments at risk. Smaller countries, particularly those that can be persuaded to secede from bigger ones, are easier to bully and offer our companies an early mover advantage. Newly formed countries (East Timor, Kosovo, Serbia, etc.) are financially weak and their politicians are always anxious to please us.

* But if in a country we thought we had secured a particular region wants to break free, then obviously different rules will apply. In Trans-Dneister in Georgia for example, ethnic Russians have conducted a plebiscite to break free and join Russia. It is ridiculuous and we will never recognise it. The BTC pipeline passes through the region and we don't want jeopardise anything.

The Komodo dragon is a strange sort of carnivore. Basically, it is a carrion eater i.e. it eats dead animals. Of course, there is nothing strange about an animal eating carrion. What is strange about the Komodo dragon is how it finds its meal when supplies provided by Nature go low.

First, the dragon sneaks up on a live animal such as deer or buffalo when it is busy grazing and bites it. The bitten animal almost always runs away but in a few days its dies and the dragon has a meal ready. How does this happen?

As mentioned earlier, the Komodo dragon eats dead animals (in various stages of decay). Being very poor at table manners, pieces of its meal remain stuck on its serrated jaws and rots there for weeks together. As a result, the dragon's saliva contains a lethal cocktail of deadly bacteria. And, it drools a lot. So, when the dragon bites an animal, its victim dies in a few days of septicemia. Neat, huh? No? Ruined your appetite? Well, American foreign policy ruins entire nations.


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I don't require my man to have a big penis, i'd just love for him to have one. Good looks are what I require.
myron myron wrote:When lefties are pressed to defend their positions intelligently,an oxymoron...You can toy with them

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elliott20
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Postby elliott20 on Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:22 pm

wow, that's a lot of claims of corruption and foul play in one post. If the list had cited incidents to illustrate their point, we'd at least have something to debate about.
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Postby Blond Adult Girl on Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:29 pm

elliott20 wrote:wow, that's a lot of claims of corruption and foul play in one post. If the list had cited incidents to illustrate their point, we'd at least have something to debate about.


I don't even think that site takes itself seriously. Maybe its trying to spoof media matters or Air America.

Its wording sort of reminds me of uncyclopedia.org :lol:
I don't require my man to have a big penis, i'd just love for him to have one. Good looks are what I require.
myron myron wrote:When lefties are pressed to defend their positions intelligently,an oxymoron...You can toy with them

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elliott20
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Postby elliott20 on Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:41 pm

oh yeah, it's obviously a satire website kind of like the onion.

The thing is though, this article on it's own seems to have a bit more serious of a tone to it, which leads me to believe that the author was not really kiddinig entirely.
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Try this one then

Postby Guest on Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:54 pm

TRY THIS ONE THEN

http://www.lewrockwell.com/kwiatkowski/kwiatkowski101.html

The . Has No Clothes: US Foreign Policy Exposed

by Karen Kwiatkowski
December 1, 2004

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On Independence Day 1821, John Quincy Adams gave a speech about what America had done and could do for the benefit of mankind.

This speech contained no executive twinkle of utopian Wilsonian intervention, nor furtive whispers of the neoconservative-cherished American-led Democratic International. Instead, Adams provided a theorem of American foreign policy that Ivan Eland proves and explains in logical and highly readable way in his latest book, The . Has No Clothes: U.S. Foreign Policy Exposed.

Eland, as others before him, seeks a modern and workable answer to the 21st century challenge of American foreign policy. What should it be, what works, what doesn’t work, how might it contribute to a better world? Can Americans conduct a foreign policy that will complement, enrich and strengthen our republic, and if we could, how would it be defined, constrained, and enlarged? Celebrating our American independence in 1821, Adams shared the then actuality of our foreign policy, saying America "does not go aboard in search of monsters to destroy."

Dr. Eland lucidly reminds us why this should be the case today, and coherently puts forth a vision of an American foreign policy that satisfies the framework put forth by the founders, and one that politically and economically will satisfy and greatly enrich both her citizens, and the rest of the world.

In explaining the state of the modern American . – fascinatingly, one shown to be clearly modeled on Sparta, not on the great Athenian democracy we might have imagined – Dr. Eland works throughout the book as an educator rather than an advocate. As Senior Fellow and Director of the Center on Peace & Liberty at the Independent Institute, he is uniquely qualified to both educate and advocate, with a doctorate in national security policy from George Washington University, and a long history of researching foreign and defense policy, including experience as the principal defense analyst for the Congressional Budget Office. For the rest of us, The . Has No Clothes provides an education sorely needed, and one unlikely to be provided to Americans in any other venue.

Eland’s first two chapters explain what we have become as a nation, and how it happened. He shows clearly that post Cold War America spends far more in real terms for defense than at any point during in the Cold War. He shows exactly how that abnormally large investment directly feeds a narrow elitist subset of political and defense interest groups not only in lieu of, but to the detriment of real national defense. In fact, as readers reflect on how safe they do or do not feel in American today, Eland’s honesty and objectivity on these points is refreshing; unfortunately, his explanations will confirm for many readers their own non-verbalized suspicions about what Washington is really doing with our defensive resources.

Of course, defense is just a word, and it often has little practical meaning. In the past 100 years, America has nurtured and developed a far-flung military ., aimed as was the Spartan . less at holding territory than at holding governments. It was founded on alliances with scores of dependents, and is hampered by unbalanced investments in martial security for often wealthy allies. It is distinguished by an inability to either protect Americans from modern threats or win any kind of occupation or other war against the extremely poor and culturally alien countries in which we seem most interested. Incidentally, in explaining and examining the American ., Eland points out some unique differences from our closest historical model. The Spartan ., as with some of the 17th century European models, actually profited for a time from conquest: garnishment and tribute and the ability to influence member nations' trade and security policies. Ironically, the American . has never achieved this enlightened state, even as her overextension is already entering free fall.

Eland portrays our modern foreign policy in a useful and eye-opening way, allowing us to understand what otherwise would remain a confusing enigma. Our foreign policy is, in a sense, a uniquely American golem bearing democracy and good works at the point of a gun, martial in leaning, without conscience, judgment, ethics or humanity. Brought forth to do good and helpful things, the military-industrial complex and the foreign policy infrastructure have developed lives and untenable desires of their own.

Public choice theory, invoked at various times in the book to explain a foreign policy that for many Americans seems insane, unwise or unexplainable, holds that "when benefits are concentrated among certain influential or well-organized groups and costs are diffused among the entire American public, the vested interests will dictate policy. This maxim is even truer in foreign policy than in domestic affairs." Lesson one from The . Has No Clothes may well be this basic reality check, shattering the oft-heard charge from Washington that to criticize American foreign policy is to rescind one’s love of country. Instead, to loudly criticize elites in Washington and the vested interests is to be most traditionally and satisfyingly American.

In the past 100 years American foreign policy has become progressively more offensive, more militaristic, more expensive, and in every way, less republican, less constitutionally constrained, and with all that, imperial. The facts on the ground in terms of military spending (seven times the next closest spenders, China and Russia, and thirty times that of Iran, North Korea, and Syria combined), military reach (global), and general policies of interference (the U.S. "is the foremost user of economic coercion as a foreign policy tool") support Eland’s assessment that indeed, our foreign policy is beyond the pale and unsustainable. Several closet imperialistas in the neoconservative camp of both major parties, such as Max Boot of the Council on Foreign Relations and Victor D. Hanson of the Weekly Standard are frequently referenced. Even they seem to agree, ruefully at times, with the basics put forth in the book.

Thus, we have an ., of sorts, impossible to pay for or to secure, and remarkably unguided by the kind of great ideas, kings and emperors we might read about or watch on the big screen. America has not been led to . by some great shared vision or the ego of a larger than life leader. She has been cajoled, sweet-talked, lied to and made afraid whenever it was politically expedient, by bureaucrats and academics and ideologues who never knew war or else relished the fantasy of it.

Randolph Bourne, describing American war and politics circa World War I, wrote, "War is the health of the state." War, whether on drugs, poverty, terrorism, or evil axes, provides for unquestioned – and unquestionable – state growth and expansion. Unlike incremental state bureaucratic growth under non-war conditions, the existence of a "war" allows for a synchronized popularization of usually unconstitutional growth among a frightened yet nationalistically inflamed populace. War can be a beautiful thing for that bureaucratic elitist and governmentally-connected sliver of society that benefits from its pursuit.

Eland explains how imperial and multifaceted "war" serves more than the health of the state. War constitutes the absolute vitality of the chief executive, unrestrained by an independent self-respecting Congress, or an independent, self-respecting judiciary. We often hear George W. Bush describing himself as a "War President." We rarely stop to examine, as Eland has, what this really means, or to consider that this proud self-assessment is utterly anti-republican and abhorrent to American tradition.

Rejecting an imperial America is, or soon will be, thanks to The . Has No Clothes, easy for many of us. Eland clarifies and simplifies why all Americans should resist and oppose political decisions aimed at maintaining and promoting the imperial attitude, and imperial foreign policies. For conservatives, we should fear . because it breaks the budget and grows government in all directions, at all levels, and permanently. Liberals, he writes, should be infuriated at the hijacking of their values of humanitarianism, human rights and democracy to serve as cover for realpolitik and worse, corporatist and elitist interests of manipulation of markets, government subsidy of business risk, and neoconservative totalitarianism that would recreate, reshape and renew whole countries and cultures. All Americans should be concerned that acts supporting or pursuing . have the equal and opposite effects of reducing domestic liberty, fraying the constitutional balance of power between Congress and the executive, and destroying, perhaps permanently, our hard earned republic.

In this important book, Eland has stripped the American . for all to see. While it is admittedly painful, we must boldly direct our gaze at this undressed spectacle. The average American, like the clear-eyed innocent little boy in the Hans Christian Andersen story "The Emperor’s New Clothes," is completely capable of observing that in spite of what we are told by the echo chambers of administrations from Wilson to Roosevelt to Truman to Nixon to Bush 41, Clinton and Bush 43, in fact the American . has no clothes. No profit, no richness, no honor, no loveliness, no good works or humanity. In pursuing . for beautiful and glorious sounding reasons, in fact we have made America a laughingstock, and as a republic, she has grown scrawny and weak.

If we are not to go abroad in search of monsters to destroy, what are we to do? Cartoonist Walt Kelly has provided what may be a sly corollary to Adams’ kind warning, with "We have met the enemy and he is us." The enemy of the Republic is not found on faraway shores, or in the capital cities of friends and foes, in good thugs who do our bidding and bad thugs who defy us. The enemy is us, and as our current president is fond of saying, we certainly ought to pursue him where he lives, and destroy him. Eland suggests how we might deal with the real problems of American foreign policy, in part by challenging some common assumptions about the world and how it works.

A popular denigration of those who question American . is to cry "Isolationist!" In fact, Eland colorfully illustrates how the interventionists have done far more to isolate America, in both economic and security terms, than those who caution against ., while invariably advocating real freedom of commerce and association. Most recently, the Bush administration interventionists have in a very short time done permanent damage to both traditional and modern American foreign relations and alliances. One struggles to imagine how more isolated in the global community America could be, although the increasing unpopularity of our currency might hold our next wave of isolation at the hands of our pompous interventionists.

Eland also illustrates how the Washington explanation of interdependence and globalization as a justification for U.S. dabbling in every one else’s affairs "merely repackages the discredited domino theory of communism’s advance during the cold war." As in nature, crises of all kinds may actually self-contain, heal and dissolve by being left alone with those people most impacted by it. During the Cold War, intervention was the norm, but the end of the Cold War brought new opportunities for so many countries to be simply left alone to resolve their problems. Such fresh thinking is sorely needed in our national conversations and logic.

Our toppling of Saddam Hussein and the Ba-ath Party in Iraq in 2003, and the subsequent and ongoing destruction of that country’s citizens, infrastructure, economy and political institutions by the U.S. military is a prime example of how we generally make things far worse by interfering. Iraq in 2003 was a place where long brutal sanctions had seriously undermined faith in the Ba-ath Party, and tentative evolutions towards democracy in countries from Iran to Qatar to Bahrain beckoned Iraqis of all ethnicities and religions. As one of the best educated, most industrial Arab countries and one with a solid sense of national identity, Iraq was poised for real self-rule, a real republic, with a relevant form of democracy. Our interference, while it preserved Iraq’s trade on the dollar, U.S. access to Iraqi oil and provided new military bases, derailed Iraq’s progress towards democracy rather than expediting it. The Iraq tragedy serves as one of our most blatant examples of American . unclothed, unrestrained and unattractive.

Eland asks the right questions – as all American do when they reach a certain juncture in life, a place where change must happen, where decisions must be made. Eland demands a reevaluation of our alliances, especially with those countries that don’t need us, or do not reciprocate. He asks that we reevaluate our "vital" interests, and then focus on them alone, even as that surely reduces the bureaucracy firmly dedicated to all the other fluff. Fifteen years after the Cold War ended peacefully, it is both amazing and yet entirely predictable that the Washington defense and foreign policy establishments, in preserving their own interests and funding, would prove too frightened and too gutless to address this fundamental question. Eland asks that we preserve and strengthen our economy, through more open trade policies, and by reducing our exorbitant offensive security budget through reduction of unneeded nuclear capability, unneeded bases and occupations, and unneeded weapons and support systems the Pentagon and the Congress so treasures.

The . Has No Clothes is well written, eye-opening and patriotic to the bones. Ivan Eland is a problem solver, as well as an insightful analyst. In seeking to solve problems one must understand how the situation evolved, where we went wrong, how we missed those earlier signs of trouble. From this, we can decide what to do, what correctives to implement. While Eland’s prescription for a better American foreign policy is clear common sense and even a bit populist, readers are advised not to hold their breath in hopes that his wisdom will be expeditiously adopted by the foreign policy elites or the military- industrial complex. But it is good to know that we really can trust our own eyes and judgment, and reject the cacophony of claims that the American . is beautiful, magnificent, and charming. Eland has done a great service to America and our troubled republic by helping us all find our voice, and to perhaps recover our innocence.

Karen Kwiatkowski [send her mail] is a retired USAF lieutenant colonel, who spent her final four and a half years in uniform working at the Pentagon. She now lives with her freedom-loving family in the Shenandoah Valley, and writes a bi-weekly column on defense issues with a libertarian perspective for militaryweek.com.

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Re: American Foreign Policy for Dummies

Postby Guest on Fri Jun 22, 2007 4:07 pm

Blond Adult Girl wrote:
Troll Alert!


The article was foreign policy for dummies - so it was put in real simple 'nutshell' language.

Rather than being trollish, I think it is germane to this discussion. If people want to understand, and thereby counteract, hatred towards America, then they would do well to first of all consider American Foreign Policy - Policy that was developing well in advance of President Bush being elected and that has been present through both Republican and Democratic presidencies.

If American foreign policy was not a problem, and a large part of the wealth and privelege Americans enjoy was not through the suffering of other people in other countries, then there would not be any anti-American sentiment. Can you argue against that?

So this leaves a number of possibilities for the American people:

1/ Accept that this is how your Government treats other countries and that you gain privelege from their suffering and say 'oh well, too bad for the other countries - I'm comfortable'.

2/ The most common choice - put your head in the sand, remain ignorant, swallow the propaganda fed to you by the powers that be hook line and sinker.

3/ Demand that your Government become more accountable for their actions and seek improvements that are more in line with what you have been led to believe - that America is a great and benevolent country who does no harm to others.

If you choose either 1 or 2, then don't whinge about anti-American sentiment.

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