At last count Halliburton had 58 offshore subsidiaries in Caribbean tax havens. With Cheney at the helm Halliburton’s tax payments to the U.S. went from $302 million in 1998 to zero in 1999, when they also received a refund of $85 million from the Internal Revenue Service.
The Congressional Research Service has concluded that holding stock options while in elective office does constitute a “financial interest” whether or not the holder of the options donates the proceeds to charities, and deferred compensation is also a financial interest.
jojo22 wrote:Crikey! That was a pretty thorough and informed analysis you gave there - how the hell did you whip that up so quickly? I'm impressed. I might not view things the same way you do, but I appreciate your considerable intellect.
However, whatever the finer details of the situation and arguments are, the fact still remains Iraq was invaded on pretexts that were not verifiable after the fact and the affiliates of those in the administration made HUGE profits out of it. Whose to say Cheney isn't going to be saying hello to a massive wad of cash after he leaves office? And Bush couldn't be further up to his neck in all concerns 'oil' if he tried.
There's a hell of a lot of greed going on out there and power for power's sake.
. wrote:
The stumbling block for conspiracy theorists (CT for short) is motive.
CTs analyze a situation such as the one we're discussing based on their own subjective station in life. There are very few people in this world who have so much money that it is not a concern. Because most people have daily financial concerns, they fall into the trap of analyzing the conduct of others subjectively with their own concerns as a barometer.
In analyzing the motives of people like Bush and Cheney, one must take into account their respective stations in life.
Step back a second and consider the specific circumstances.
Dick Cheney was paid more than $40 million during his five-year tenure as CEO of Halliburton. Cheney will never have any financial concerns whatsoever. He is also 65 years old, has suffered several heart attacks and has undergone quadruple bypass surgery. These facts militate against CTs’ attribution of greed as the primary motivation for Cheney’s actions.
The same applies to George W. Bush, also a multimillionaire who will never have any financial concerns whatsoever. Bush is 60 years old. If one considers the facts, common sense rules out greed as the driving force of Bush’s conduct.
The overriding motivation of people like Bush and Cheney (or anyone who would even consider becoming President of the United States) is their place in history, their legacy.
In order to become President, one must possess a good deal of narcissism.
What drives all American Presidents (indeed, all leaders of nations) is how they will be remembered in the history books.
That's the main reason the notion that Bush was behind 9/11 due to greed is ludicrous. The certainty of eternal infamy if the plot were discovered would deter anyone in Bush’s shoes.
jojo22 wrote:But I don't think all I am talking about is a conspiracy theory - they're dirty - I see it and a heck of a lot of other people see it too. Sometimes things are a bit clearer from a distance.
. wrote:. wrote:
The stumbling block for conspiracy theorists (CT for short) is motive.
CTs analyze a situation such as the one we're discussing based on their own subjective station in life. There are very few people in this world who have so much money that it is not a concern. Because most people have daily financial concerns, they fall into the trap of analyzing the conduct of others subjectively with their own concerns as a barometer.
In analyzing the motives of people like Bush and Cheney, one must take into account their respective stations in life.
Step back a second and consider the specific circumstances.
Dick Cheney was paid more than $40 million during his five-year tenure as CEO of Halliburton. Cheney will never have any financial concerns whatsoever. He is also 65 years old, has suffered several heart attacks and has undergone quadruple bypass surgery. These facts militate against CTs’ attribution of greed as the primary motivation for Cheney’s actions.
The same applies to George W. Bush, also a multimillionaire who will never have any financial concerns whatsoever. Bush is 60 years old. If one considers the facts, common sense rules out greed as the driving force of Bush’s conduct.
The overriding motivation of people like Bush and Cheney (or anyone who would even consider becoming President of the United States) is their place in history, their legacy.
In order to become President, one must possess a good deal of narcissism.
What drives all American Presidents (indeed, all leaders of nations) is how they will be remembered in the history books.
That's the main reason the notion that Bush was behind 9/11 due to greed is ludicrous. The certainty of eternal infamy if the plot were discovered would deter anyone in Bush’s shoes.
I agree with what you say, but I don't think it's enough to stop CTs talking about Bush. In no particular order.
First it's well known that absolute power corrupts absolutely, but it's also true that you almost always have to make moral compromises to achieve absolute power. Just because Bush appears moral and I agree he does, doesn't mean he doesn't have a few skeletons lurking that he'd expend his power to keep in the closet.
Second Julius Ceasar has a historical legacy that few, if any, people in history can match. He was also ruthless and destroyed the very Republic that created his position. It's not enough to say Bush wants his place in history without defining what he'd do to achieve that legacy.
Third no matter how much money you have, millions, billions, there are still those that want more. For some, the pursuit of money is as powerful as the pursuit of power. For some money is how they judge their worth. You can't say that Bush has enough money, without knowing what he thinks is "enough" money.
. wrote:jojo22 wrote:But I don't think all I am talking about is a conspiracy theory - they're dirty - I see it and a heck of a lot of other people see it too. Sometimes things are a bit clearer from a distance.
Saying someone is "dirty" with no proof -is- CT.
I don't see Bush as dirty or even moderately corrupt. He might be, but what I see in his actions and his words, is a smart man without the skills he needs to manage a country as large and diverse and powerful as the USA. I -don't- think it's lack of moral fiber or lack of wanting to be the best he can. It's just a man desperately treading water in the deep end of the pool. If he'd known how to get and keep the best lifeguards, he'd be all right.
. wrote:If anything Bush goes off on his own path and drags everyone else along with him. That seems to be the concensus of all the material I've read on him.
I think it would be interesting and a challenge to work for him, until you think he's wrong at which time it becomes a nightmare.
jojo22 wrote:. wrote:If anything Bush goes off on his own path and drags everyone else along with him. That seems to be the concensus of all the material I've read on him.
I think it would be interesting and a challenge to work for him, until you think he's wrong at which time it becomes a nightmare.
Still, he must get information that sets him off from somewhere - like Rove, Rumsfield, Cheney, daddy, etc. I doubt he's out there doing all the research himself. No doubt he sets off like a high turbo fart - all action, not enough engaging of grey matter - and the amount of propaganda and fear mongering that he does (aided by his trust allies - Fox) makes me want to vomit.
I wonder if Fox will start to change their tune more now - less 'Bush farts roses' and more 'ok - Bush had gotta go'.
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