Does socialized medicine make you a dependent?

[Gibbous Moon]

:lol:



* Why should the all-up total costs of an essential operation be double in an American hospital, when compared to the same surgery being carried out in an equivalent standard Australian hospital?
Because the hospitals have to pass on the costs of "free" health care to those that can pay! Nothing is free you see.


I don’t follow your logic. It costs less for the same operation in Australia because they are passing on the cost to someone else. I don’t think that makes sense.

If a beer and sandwich for me costs £5 and for costs £10 then my lunch still costs half as much as yours regardless of whether my dad paid for it or not.

GM

[Fred75]

:lol:



* Why should the all-up total costs of an essential operation be double in an American hospital, when compared to the same surgery being carried out in an equivalent standard Australian hospital?
Because the hospitals have to pass on the costs of "free" health care to those that can pay! Nothing is free you see.


I don’t follow your logic. It costs less for the same operation in Australia because they are passing on the cost to someone else. I don’t think that makes sense.

Those with insurance and money are charged extra to cover the uninsured and poor.
That does not happen over there.


GM

[Gibbous Moon]

No – I think Bushwalker’s point is that the same operation in Australia costs less.

Not that it costs the actual patient less but that it costs less. Not that the hospital charges less for the operation but that it costs less. Not that the cost is somehow spread around better but that it costs less. It is cheaper, it costs less. Doing costs less. Less money. Less of it.

That the team of three doctors, five nurses and myriad support staff and the necessary equipment and drugs which are identical cost less in Australia than in America.

GM

[mogadishu]

Well, half-truths are better that whole truths, aren’t they dudeski? If you go to a hospital emergency ward, it’s true that in the US they can’t turn you away. But it’s also true that they will bill your and dun your credit report for everything that you didn’t pay for. Furthermore, you can’t exist on emergency care forever.

Ok... what happens if you're unable to pay at that point?

[Fred75]

Well, half-truths are better that whole truths, aren’t they dudeski? If you go to a hospital emergency ward, it’s true that in the US they can’t turn you away. But it’s also true that they will bill your and dun your credit report for everything that you didn’t pay for. Furthermore, you can’t exist on emergency care forever.

Ok... what happens if you're unable to pay at that point?

The emergency room becomes the walk in clinic for those with the sniffles.
Which is why some hospitals have gotten rid of the Emergency room!
It loses too much money.
No emergency room means they can turn away slackers mooching off the system.

[H. Franklin Layne]

Well, half-truths are better that whole truths, aren’t they dudeski? If you go to a hospital emergency ward, it’s true that in the US they can’t turn you away. But it’s also true that they will bill your and dun your credit report for everything that you didn’t pay for. Furthermore, you can’t exist on emergency care forever.

Ok... what happens if you're unable to pay at that point?

The emergency room becomes the walk in clinic for those with the sniffles.
Which is why some hospitals have gotten rid of the Emergency room!
It loses too much money.
No emergency room means they can turn away slackers mooching off the system.

Are these slackers the same people that used to be designers, engineers, and middle management of companies that outsourced overseas, to become produce pickers with the illegals? Who on Earth is going to get you your fresh fruits and veggies if you close the clinic doors, Fred?

[Fred75]

Well, half-truths are better that whole truths, aren’t they dudeski? If you go to a hospital emergency ward, it’s true that in the US they can’t turn you away. But it’s also true that they will bill your and dun your credit report for everything that you didn’t pay for. Furthermore, you can’t exist on emergency care forever.

Ok... what happens if you're unable to pay at that point?

The emergency room becomes the walk in clinic for those with the sniffles.
Which is why some hospitals have gotten rid of the Emergency room!
It loses too much money.
No emergency room means they can turn away slackers mooching off the system.

Are these slackers the same people that used to be designers, engineers, and middle management of companies that outsourced overseas, to become produce pickers with the illegals?
Yes. Thank Bill Clinton for opening the door to China so we could sell them all our fine products that none of them could afford to begin with!


Who on Earth is going to get you your fresh fruits and veggies if you close the clinic doors, Fred?

[H. Franklin Layne]

Well, half-truths are better that whole truths, aren’t they dudeski? If you go to a hospital emergency ward, it’s true that in the US they can’t turn you away. But it’s also true that they will bill your and dun your credit report for everything that you didn’t pay for. Furthermore, you can’t exist on emergency care forever.

Ok... what happens if you're unable to pay at that point?

The emergency room becomes the walk in clinic for those with the sniffles.
Which is why some hospitals have gotten rid of the Emergency room!
It loses too much money.
No emergency room means they can turn away slackers mooching off the system.

Are these slackers the same people that used to be designers, engineers, and middle management of companies that outsourced overseas, to become produce pickers with the illegals?
Yes. Thank Bill Clinton for opening the door to China so we could sell them all our fine products that none of them could afford to begin with!


Who on Earth is going to get you your fresh fruits and veggies if you close the clinic doors, Fred?

I love how Clinton is the embodiment of all things evil with Republicans. I hate to tell you this, Senor Fred, but NIXON and Reagan opened the flood gates with China. Old sayings like "only Nixon can go to China," are blasting like air raid sirens right now! LMAO. Fred, you slay me. Clinton wasn't perfect, NAFTA did do a lot of bad things, I admit that. But the whole "New World Order" and "Global Economy" was kicked into overdrive the day after Bush jr was elected. That day, and this is still fresh in my mind because I remember what I was doing when the news announced it...that day, 120,000 jobs were killed!!! The day after the election in y2k, 120k jobs were sent packing. Eight years of it, buddy!

I have said it before, and I'll say it again. The republican philosophy is and always has been what is good for big business is good for the country. It has been proven wrong umpteen million times, when you stop and consider the loss of jobs, the mortgage scandals, the gas price gouging by big oil, the looting of pension funds by big biz, foreclosure and unemployment at an all time high, fewer people being able to buy new homes, chooising instead to bank their money, or have to use it for food, rent and HEALTH CARE costs!!!

Fred, I need to ask you a question. Do you suffer from Glaucoma?

[Fred75]

Fred, you slay me. Clinton wasn't perfect, NAFTA did do a lot of bad things, I admit that. But the whole "New World Order" and "Global Economy" was kicked into overdrive the day after Bush jr was elected.

Was it Bush Jr's signature or the fellow before him that started that whole downfall?

[Fred75]

I have said it before, and I'll say it again. The republican philosophy is and always has been what is good for big business is good for the country. It has been proven wrong umpteen million times, when you stop and consider the loss of jobs,
Thank Clinton for opening the door to China's cheap labor.

the mortgage scandals,
They signed the contracts. They have to live with the consequences of not reading or understanding it (homeowner).
the gas price gouging by big oil,
What is the markup on gas.... 10% or 50%?
It's around 10%... that's not gouging!
the looting of pension funds by big biz,
I recall all that looting was done by greedy individuals!!!!
foreclosure and unemployment at an all time high,
fewer people being able to buy new homes,
Which is the way it's supposed to be!
Now the banks want to see you can actually AFFORD to pay the mortgage!
chooising instead to bank their money,
What... SAVING money is a sin for Liberals now?
or have to use it for food, rent and
HEALTH CARE costs!!!
So you think BIG GOVERNMENT is going to be better than big business?
Because once you approve Socilized medicine.... your going to have a MASSIVE big government poking it's finger up your arse telling you how to live!

[H. Franklin Layne]

I have said it before, and I'll say it again. The republican philosophy is and always has been what is good for big business is good for the country. It has been proven wrong umpteen million times, when you stop and consider the loss of jobs,
Thank Clinton for opening the door to China's cheap labor.

No, I thank Nixon and Reagan for it.

the mortgage scandals,
They signed the contracts. They have to live with the consequences of not reading or understanding it (homeowner).

They signed the contracts when they had their JOBS! You know what jobs are, the things you are always preaching to others to go get, and get out of mommas basement!!!! They signed before it was known what level of criminal activity BUSINESS was up to, AGAIN

the gas price gouging by big oil,
What is the markup on gas.... 10% or 50%?
It's around 10%... that's not gouging!

You can paint with whatever color you wish, Fred, it's gouging! When wages aren't keeping up with the costs of living. Once again, people get put out, money stays with a select few with the POWER to do such, and suddenly people can't afford fuel, food, housing, utilities.


the looting of pension funds by big biz,
I recall all that looting was done by greedy individuals!!!!

Most of whom lean towards conservative

foreclosure and unemployment at an all time high,
fewer people being able to buy new homes,
Which is the way it's supposed to be!
Now the banks want to see you can actually AFFORD to pay the mortgage!

Then let the retards stfu about how low new housing purchases are! The conservative economic models want to measure success by new housing gains, punish the crooks that wrote bad paper, not the people struggling to keep their jobs AND pay the bills. CHILDREN live in those homes Fred, what's BEST FOR THE CHILDREN, buddy?
choosing instead to bank their money,
What... SAVING money is a sin for Liberals now?

If only you had included the text below in your quote and response! The choice to save it or put food on the table, Freddy! The children need to eat to make their backs strong enough to dig ditches!!!!
or have to use it for food, rent and
HEALTH CARE costs!!!
So you think BIG GOVERNMENT is going to be better than big business?
Because once you approve Socilized medicine.... your going to have a MASSIVE big government poking it's finger up your arse telling you how to live!

What I think, my friend, is that people need health care. Affording it alone is nearly impossible. More and more "businesses" are cutting health care benefits. People die if they get too sick. They get too sick when they can't afford an office visit fee, or a hospital stay. Insurance companies use claim denials routinely as a cost savings measure. Many legitimate and serious health care issues become more serious than they should as a result of it. They claim to be not for profit, but they are run like any other corporation, and that means the majority of people get screwed. When I say majority of people, I include those who are in "redlined" areas!!! Do you? I think not, because you automatically label them welfare cases or worse.

You want to label me a socialist, or communist, yet you know what I want for this country, through our conversations here. You know we aren't THAT far apart in what we see for the USA. Somewhere between hardcore conservatism and liberalism, lies valid propositions that will make a world of positive difference. But the ivory towers need to be renovated in the form of throwing out the greedy inhabitants to make them happen!!!

[Fred75]

You want to label me a socialist, or communist, yet you know what I want for this country, through our conversations here. You know we aren't THAT far apart in what we see for the USA. Somewhere between hardcore conservatism and liberalism, lies valid propositions that will make a world of positive difference. But the ivory towers need to be renovated in the form of throwing out the greedy inhabitants to make them happen!!!

And after your communist utopia flourishes... you will start up complaining about those in government having too much power.

No my friend... the lessor of two evils is capitalism.
There the people can overthrow the powerful with more ease and less revolution.

[H. Franklin Layne]

You want to label me a socialist, or communist, yet you know what I want for this country, through our conversations here. You know we aren't THAT far apart in what we see for the USA. Somewhere between hardcore conservatism and liberalism, lies valid propositions that will make a world of positive difference. But the ivory towers need to be renovated in the form of throwing out the greedy inhabitants to make them happen!!!

And after your communist utopia flourishes... you will start up complaining about those in government having too much power.

No my friend... the lessor of two evils is capitalism.
There the people can overthrow the powerful with more ease and less revolution.

I'm ALREADY bitching about people in government having too much power, Fred!

Overthrow the powerful? That statement is TREASONOUS under the law nowadays. The Constitution guarantees to the free press the right to free speech. But let a citizen utter such a phrase, or something even less controversial, like a threat on the President's life, and the Secret Service will vanish you. Would make the mob proud, and they did Jimmy Hoffa real good!