Gay marriage

[Cambridge]

I believe that as long as they're investigated properly along the same lines as prospective adoptive parents, they should be allowed raise children. (i speak as an adopted person).

You touch upon an interesting point. Did you know there is more investigation into your past when you apply for a fishing license than when you bear children?

What kind of investigation do you think that potential couples (gay or straight) should undergo in order to have children? Should they have to get a license for each child? Personally, I don’t think that’s a bad idea, but you’re going to end up fighting a myriad of Constitutional questions.

Oh, and hairy back:

To say two lesbian women are the equal of a man….

Let’s start with the assumption that one lesbian woman is the equal of two men. Makes more sense that way.

[tamachant]

I dont see the problem. Simply because if two gay people live to together share everything anyway, marriage is just a piece of paper for legal purposes, which makes policys, home ownership easier. As for kids I wont go there, I believe only in children having a loving environment. So if a gay house is a good, safe place where a child gets food and education, I would choose that over a "normal" familly where there is violence , abuse etc.

[coolman]

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[Fred75]

I'm also a 100% heterosexual male. I believe people are born with one sexual orientation or the other (or both as the case may be). Why should gay/lesbian couple be denied any of the rights and privileges that are offered to heterosexual couples?

I agree with chrisvet and cambridge: what two consenting human adults do is none of my business as long as they are not infringing upon my rights and privileges.

Because saying that gay couples are all equal is to say that they are equally fit to raise a child.

And that is not so.
A child needs to see how to live and love the opposite sex and raise children just the same.

To say two lesbian women are the equal of a man and woman is to tell society and children that a father is not needed.
Is that a message you want have a small boy learn and then grow up and live by abandoning his children?

I can see all sides of this argument (I'm straight by the way)

Everyone is attacking Fred's viewpoint and i can see why, but i can also see what Fred's saying. This is a difficult issue. In an ideal world children would be brought up by one man and one woman, for balance. But this is not an ideal world - far from it. I have gay friends that are longing for children and I feel they'll do a great job. There are plenty of hetero couples that are bloody awful parents - even criminal.

I believe gay couples should be allowed to marry. They should have the same legal rights and protection. I believe that as long as they're investigated properly along the same lines as prospective adoptive parents, they should be allowed raise children. (i speak as an adopted person).

So, I agree with the general consensus on this thread but I don't think you're being fair to Fred - some of his points aren't as crazy as you make out.

It's simple... the ones failing to se my point are most likely products of divorce or unwed mothers and see no problem with broken homes.

They think it's normal.
So they go on perpetuating bad family values.

In fact... the worse the other scenario, the better they look.

[tamachant]

It's simple... the ones failing to se my point are most likely products of divorce or unwed mothers and see no problem with broken homes.
They think it's normal.
So they go on perpetuating bad family values.
In fact... the worse the other scenario, the better they look.

I believe we have had this debate before, in another life time that is. Your familly wasnt un-broken and thats why this is so important to you. Never mind the huge hatred you have inside you for woman.

[coolman]

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[coolman]

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[Fred75]

Point is... gay parental rights are all about one thing... striping away the childs right to normal parents.

Homosexuals want the right to sue to be equals.

That's not in the best interest of the child.
It's in the interest of the homosexuals.
That's a bad precedent to set.... making the best interest of the child SECONDARY.

And you all think LOVE solves everything.
It does not.
I do not deny homosexuals can love a child.

But they set a precedent in society, just like easy divorce and unwed mothers, that you only need one gender to raise a child.

That does society no favors.
It breeds selfish parents putting the interest of the child second.

[GayandProud]

Point is... gay parental rights are all about one thing... striping away the childs right to normal parents.

so define NORMAL

Homosexuals want the right to sue to be equals.

equals? you put far too much store in where you put your dick Fred. The fact I have sex with other like-minded men doesnt make me unequal to you because you happen to have sex with women. Stop obsessing about what people do in bed - you are being selfish !
That's not in the best interest of the child.

How would you know? Do you know any children from same sex homes? How do you know they arent perfectly happy, well adjusted and productive members of society?

It's in the interest of the homosexuals.
That's a bad precedent to set.... making the best interest of the child SECONDARY.

Really? so two loving parents who provide a good safe stable home are putting the best interests of the child secondary? You cant see past the sex can you Fred. You are so repressed it would be funny if it werent so sad.

And you all think LOVE solves everything.
It does not.
I do not deny homosexuals can love a child.

Thanks, your condescension almost makes me warm towards you :lol:

But they set a precedent in society, just like easy divorce and unwed mothers, that you only need one gender to raise a child.
This is too funny !! What a ridiculous non-sequitur
In a divorce two people split up, in the case of unwed mums, theres only one person. In the case of same sex relationships there are TWO people. One gender doesnt make one person in the case of same sex relationships Its TWO men raising a child or TWO women raising a child. TWO people Fred. You see when gay men are in a relationship they dont suddenly morph into one amalgous eight limbed two headed person. They stay TWO seperate entities with their own personalities, minds and talents Just like you and your wife.
That does society no favors.
It breeds selfish parents putting the interest of the child second.
What breeds selfish parents? Divorce? So youd rather a child stayed in an unhappy home with two unhappy people rather than be in a home with happy people? I know whos selfish Fred - its you and your obsession with the rules you think you should live by just because you cant think for yourself. YOU are putting the interests of the child second because you put your obsession with marriage first.

[Who?]

You touch upon an interesting point. Did you know there is more investigation into your past when you apply for a fishing license than when you bear children?

What kind of investigation do you think that potential couples (gay or straight) should undergo in order to have children? Should they have to get a license for each child? Personally, I don’t think that’s a bad idea, but you’re going to end up fighting a myriad of Constitutional questions.

It's a very difficult issue Cambridge but prospective couples should be interviewed at home. The interviewer should be trained to ask relevant questions and try to gauge their suitability. Of course, this is not an exact science and will be open to interpretation but this is what happens nowadays with straight couples that want to adopt. Perhaps a civil partnership should be mandatory too. Some form of proof should be provided that the couple have lived together for a period of at least several years (utility bills, credit card statements etc..).

Evidence of financial stability should also be provided.

The child's best interests should be paramount (which is Fred's main point). There's no doubt that there would be extra 'challenges' for children who have two fathers, or two mothers, but these can be overcome.

I know gay people that would make fantastic parents which is why I'm in favour, in principle.

[Fred75]

All of you in favor of gay marriage, now and forever, have no right to say anything about a parent that abandons their child.

A father that walks out is not necessary because lesbians prove men are not necessary!

A mother that walks out is not necessary because gay fathers proves a mother is not necessary!


Guys that go around getting women knocked up one after another... KNOWS that a father is not necessary because lesbians prove it so.

[tamachant]

Okay its an edless debate, your opinion is your own, as is each of ours and nothing any of us say to eachother will really change that. So I wish you well on your quest, but for yourown health and hapiness do let go fo that anger. Its just not worth it.

[coolman]

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[Fred75]

Okay its an edless debate, your opinion is your own, as is each of ours and nothing any of us say to eachother will really change that. So I wish you well on your quest, but for yourown health and hapiness do let go fo that anger. Its just not worth it.

It's not a debate.
It's FACT.

A FACT the child LIVES when in these homes.

[Cambridge]

Okay its an edless debate, your opinion is your own, as is each of ours and nothing any of us say to eachother will really change that. So I wish you well on your quest, but for yourown health and hapiness do let go fo that anger. Its just not worth it.

No, wait tam! I'm still waiting for hairy back to define normal. I know it's gonna be doozer, so don't close the door yet.