George Bush on respecting other countries

[franfran]

If you are looking for comments from people that will only agree with you, please state that so we, that do not see as you do, will stay away from your topic.

No, I'm not looking for comments from people that will only agree with me. My name isn't Fred.

[myron myron]

It now appears that Russia launched a full-scale military invasion of Georgia that necessarily entailed advance planning.

As I stated in the thread about Georgia (albeit in different words), I believe this is only the first step, a dress rehearsal if you will, in an orchestrated Russian revanchism by military aggression that Putin and his former KGB cabal have been planning for years.

Interesting use of 'Full Scale' - what does that actually mean?

In this context, it means invading beyond the territory at issue with troops and weaponry in numbers obviously intended to achieve a broader objective that what has been represented.

So Troop numbers can be set in exact proportion to the (Stated) goal?

Where did I state or suggest that?

I should add that the United States and NATO fully deserve this for their illegal aggression against Serbia and forcible secession of Kosovo.

What tosh.

Why?

NATO acted as a body. Russia acts alone.

NATO stands for peace and just results. Russia is only self-interested.

NATO did not stand for peace vis-a-vis Serbia in Kosovo.

The NATO invasion of Serbia patently violated the NATO Charter, which defines NATO as a purely defensive alliance. Serbia had not attacked or initiated any military hostilities against any NATO member.

The NATO invasion of Serbia was an act of unprovoked aggression against a democratically elected government of a sovereign country that had never committed aggression outside its internationally recognized borders.

The NATO invasion of Serbia was an act of unprovoked aggression against the democratically elected government of a sovereign country that was fighting a terrorist insurgency within its internationally recognized borders. NATO fought on the side of the insurgent Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA), which was listed at that time as a terrorist organization by the U.S. State Department.

The NATO invasion of Serbia patently violated the UN Charter Article 2, ¶ 7, which provides that neither the UN nor any member state may interfere with what a sovereign does in its own territory, with the exception of enforcement of UN Security Council Resolutions. There was not a single UN Security Council Resolution against Serbia regarding Kosovo, so there was no issue of violations of same.

The United States/NATO made no attempt to obtain a single UN Security Council Resolution condemning Serbia or authorizing any military action against Serbia because the United States/NATO knew no basis existed for any such resolution.

The NATO invasion of Serbia was an act of unprovoked aggression that included 73 continuous days and nights of aerial bombing of civilian targets in the Serbian capital, Belgrade, even though the conflict was in Kosovo, nowhere near Belgrade.

Then NATO illegally and unjustly forced the secession of Kosovo from Serbia. The UN's post facto imprimatur to the illegal NATO aggression against Serbia and forcible secession of Kosovo was naked winner's justice.

Precedent applies in international law. The U.S./NATO established a bad precedent with Serbia and Kosovo. The Russians can now rightly stick that precedent in the faces of the U.S. and NATO, and not only in the case of Georgia. And the Russians are right to do so.

In any event, even at full strength, I do not believe the U.S. and the UK could defend Georgia from Russian military takeover at a palatable cost in blood and treasure given the geostrategic realities.

[ILWL]

In any event, even at full strength, I do not believe the U.S. and the UK could defend Georgia from Russian military takeover at a palatable cost in blood and treasure given the geostrategic realities.

Agree - though must add that NATO indiscretions did not add up to a formal Annexation of Kosovo.

Hopefully the Russians are taking a Neo - Colonial / Decolonisation approach and will achieve this through a degree of subtlety!

[NoLies]

How's this for sheer hypocrisy:

President George W. Bush told tens of thousands of cheering Georgians packed into the city's Freedom Square on Tuesday that the United States would stand with the former Soviet republic as it built its young democracy, and then pointedly warned President Vladimir Putin of Russia that the sovereignty of Georgia "must be respected by all nations."

This is, of course, the same George Bush who launched a war against Iraq, another sovereign state, and justified his actions by using baseless trumped up charges.

Not to mention Q8 and Afghanistan, did i miss any?

[franfran]

How's this for sheer hypocrisy:

President George W. Bush told tens of thousands of cheering Georgians packed into the city's Freedom Square on Tuesday that the United States would stand with the former Soviet republic as it built its young democracy, and then pointedly warned President Vladimir Putin of Russia that the sovereignty of Georgia "must be respected by all nations."

This is, of course, the same George Bush who launched a war against Iraq, another sovereign state, and justified his actions by using baseless trumped up charges.

Not to mention Q8 and Afghanistan, did i miss any?

Kuwait was the other George Bush.

[myron myron]

How's this for sheer hypocrisy:

President George W. Bush told tens of thousands of cheering Georgians packed into the city's Freedom Square on Tuesday that the United States would stand with the former Soviet republic as it built its young democracy, and then pointedly warned President Vladimir Putin of Russia that the sovereignty of Georgia "must be respected by all nations."

This is, of course, the same George Bush who launched a war against Iraq, another sovereign state, and justified his actions by using baseless trumped up charges.

Not to mention Q8 and Afghanistan, did i miss any?

You missed World War II.

[The Colonel]

How's this for sheer hypocrisy:

President George W. Bush told tens of thousands of cheering Georgians packed into the city's Freedom Square on Tuesday that the United States would stand with the former Soviet republic as it built its young democracy, and then pointedly warned President Vladimir Putin of Russia that the sovereignty of Georgia "must be respected by all nations."

This is, of course, the same George Bush who launched a war against Iraq, another sovereign state, and justified his actions by using baseless trumped up charges.

Not to mention Q8 and Afghanistan, did i miss any?

You missed World War II.

Oh?

[NoLies]

Same family, same reasons. Thanks for the correction though.

[NoLies]

How's this for sheer hypocrisy:

President George W. Bush told tens of thousands of cheering Georgians packed into the city's Freedom Square on Tuesday that the United States would stand with the former Soviet republic as it built its young democracy, and then pointedly warned President Vladimir Putin of Russia that the sovereignty of Georgia "must be respected by all nations."

This is, of course, the same George Bush who launched a war against Iraq, another sovereign state, and justified his actions by using baseless trumped up charges.

Not to mention Q8 and Afghanistan, did i miss any?

You missed World War II.

What about WW1, it was probably a Bush that started it, you know what that families like for kicking of wars, and even if it was'nt a Bush, we could still blame them, could'nt we? Course we could.

[myron myron]

We don't hide in the closet and wait for someone else to do something for us.

With the exception of both World Wars I suppose...

2 years late into WW1;

2.5 years late into WW2;

Followed France into Vietnam;

Britain and Russia had previously invaded Afghanistan at various times...

After messing up in Vietnam, Indonesia, Iraq and Afghanistan, they bring in the Aussies and Kiwis to clean up their messes..

Typical right wing capitalist attitudes - money can buy anything.

Some might say it is because an inordinately large number of Aussies and Kiwis (though not all) are buttwipes best-suited to "clean up [America's] messes" -- like dung beetles, finding nourishment from S*** -- who should be grateful to America for validating their existence and giving their lives meaning.

Some might say that . . .

[boingo]

...........................

Your countryman has a low moral on the military or have the military pride.

Sp. morale _____

American aren't wimps and they are ready to serve with pride.

The American military was so undermanned in Iraq that they have had to bring in reserves and National Guard members to such an extent, that they make up 38% of the Iraqi contingent - while ~ 10 -12% is considered a much healthier balance. A shortfall of more than 25% in manpower doesn't look like a people "ready to serve with pride"!

How come the Americans (with exception of Fred) don't start topics dogging other western countries?

We don't hide in the closet and wait for someone else to do something for us.

See my earlier post above..

Zia should have known when she wrote this above , that slagging off the Aussie military as she did in here would bait me into biting back - if Zia were to claim otherwise I would consider that to be just a little disingenuous, (could have been an even more interesting debate too, if she hadn't decided to ignore me on these forums, last Saturday..).

Why don't you just leave her be for once?!!!!!

Zia didn't slag off about the Australian military and your earlier "correction" about conscription was completely wrong as she did not say or imply we have conscription. The word she used is "enlist" not "conscript"!

[ZiaAries]

Thank you boingo. Thank you very much! I hadn't seen his message until you quoted the above.

Your own PM had to require men to enlist in order to have the troops needed for your military

My comment above was referring to the year 2006. That's only 2 years ago. Perhaps paying attention to Australian News and politics instead of focusing on everything the United States of America does, one could/might learn what's going on in their own backyard before they concern themselves with ours.

BW, you may find this hard to believe but, I didn't bait YOU. I don't even reply to many of your comments. However, on this account, if you can't take it, then don't dish it out. You post behind me 'slagging' me and the US on a regular basis. I hope a little taste of your own medicine gets that point across to you. Now, for you calling the "Republican conservatives" on the forum a group of "Dickheads" well.... I'll just accept that as your style, one that I am repelled by. It stinks. As for me ignoring you, I saw no other choice but to block you and you already know the reason why. I would prefer if you'd ignore my comments, especially when I am not asking for your opinion about an exchange I have with another member. I've tried to be polite about it but that didn't work. Perhaps my frustration with you trailing me and offering your unsolicited opinions on my every comment may have been the reason I replied as I did to Fran. (Sorry Fran, I didn't mean to come off so strong.) It just gets old reading the crap digs at the US. The USA may not be the most popular kid at school right now, but we sure as hell are the one everyone comes to when they need help with their homework. *sigh.

[boingo]

Nicely put, Zia

[ZiaAries]

...........................

Your countryman has a low moral on the military or have the military pride.

Sp. morale _____

American aren't wimps and they are ready to serve with pride.

The American military was so undermanned in Iraq that they have had to bring in reserves and National Guard members to such an extent, that they make up 38% of the Iraqi contingent - while ~ 10 -12% is considered a much healthier balance. A shortfall of more than 25% in manpower doesn't look like a people "ready to serve with pride"!

How come the Americans (with exception of Fred) don't start topics dogging other western countries?

We don't hide in the closet and wait for someone else to do something for us.

See my earlier post above..

Zia should have known when she wrote this above , that slagging off the Aussie military as she did in here would bait me into biting back - if Zia were to claim otherwise I would consider that to be just a little disingenuous, (could have been an even more interesting debate too, if she hadn't decided to ignore me on these forums, last Saturday..).

Why don't you just leave her be for once?!!!!!

Zia didn't slag off about the Australian military and your earlier "correction" about conscription was completely wrong as she did not say or imply we have conscription. The word she used is "enlist" not "conscript"!

To support of what I wrote above, I ask BushWalker to review the requirement and the statements regarding low moralE , in and of the Australian military, made by former Prime Minister John Howard in the year 2006. The actions taken are reportedly at a cost of $10 Billion dollars and I assume that would be at the cost of the Australian citizens. I was not being disingenuous about anything. Again, attention to one's own country should be taken before attempting to find fault with the United States of America.

[franfran]

I've never attacked America as a country, nor its people in here - I've always targeted the Bush regime, bad foreign policy - which does affect a lot of us outside the USA, and the behaviour of big multinationals - especially Oil and Mining companies. I don't see how any of this makes me either "anti-American" or anti-capitalist.

This pretty well sums up my position too, except that I might be open to the suggestion of maybe being "anti-capitalist".

And as for our obnoxious little goblin of an ex P.M. - Zia knows I didn't support him, and voted against the horrible little man last year - it's no wonder that he not only lost government, but his own seat as well.

I've never supported him either - or voted for his party.

:gah: SORRY for the interruption, FranFran...

But then again, why not - everyone else seems to have hijacked it - at least your posts are friendly.