Co-habitation and marriage

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Ady6970
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Co-habitation and marriage

Postby Ady6970 on Tue Jul 31, 2007 10:57 am

I heard on the news this morning that the Law Commisson are recommending that co-habiting couples should be given substantially the same property and pension rights as married couples. If the commision's recommendations become law I think it will be a further blow for marriage. After all, why get married if you can acquire the same rights as a married person simply by living with someone for a specified minimum period of time? I hope the Govermnent ought to ignore the proposals as they will do untold harm if implemented. :evil:

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MM6
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Postby MM6 on Tue Jul 31, 2007 9:03 pm

People dont get married to gain pension and property rights. Thats a very cynical view. People get married because they are in love. People co-habit because they are in love. The Law Commission are simply bringing the law up to date by reflecting the rise in co-habitating couples. It wont do "untold harm" - on the contrary it may make co-habiting couples think more seriously about their living arrangements. A marriage certificate does not make the relationship between two people any more valid than that of two people without one. The law should reflect that.

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Postby noodles on Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:12 am

MM6 wrote:People dont get married to gain pension and property rights. Thats a very cynical view. People get married because they are in love. People co-habit because they are in love. The Law Commission are simply bringing the law up to date by reflecting the rise in co-habitating couples. It wont do "untold harm" - on the contrary it may make co-habiting couples think more seriously about their living arrangements. A marriage certificate does not make the relationship between two people any more valid than that of two people without one. The law should reflect that.



Im a bit unsure to be honest. I think that people should make thier own legal arrangements if they're not married. How many relationships end. Say for example you own your own home and have had your gf/bf living with you for over 2 years. You split up. Are they then entitled to take money out of your home? As many people have many relationships, if this keeps repeating (cause you genuinely wanna live with these people) you'll end up without a home for just living your life the way you chose. Either that or you never let anyone live with you again for fear of them leaving and taking a chunk of your equity with em. It kinda feels like it takes away a persons free will.

People get married obvioulsy out of love but also to share everything with another person. If you dont 'chose' to do this you shouldnt be forced into it by a law.

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Postby SUPERBAD on Wed Aug 01, 2007 5:20 pm

Cohabitation is not the same love as married love.
If it were, cohabitators would have no excuse for not getting married.
Cohabitators, especially men, cohabitate because it's easier to leave the other with less fuss than marriage.
Which of course then means marriage has more love in it than cohabitating does.

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Postby Winky89 on Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:09 pm

Mum just married her partner of 6 years last weekend, and there were several reasons they hadnt tied the knot sooner. One of them being that it costs to get married and with 3 kids to feed (one of them his, the other 2 from previous marriage) and look after it wasnt practical.

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Postby noodles on Thu Aug 02, 2007 4:11 pm

SUPERBAD wrote:Cohabitation is not the same love as married love.
If it were, cohabitators would have no excuse for not getting married.
Cohabitators, especially men, cohabitate because it's easier to leave the other with less fuss than marriage.
Which of course then means marriage has more love in it than cohabitating does.


In theory that sounds ok, not sure if its reality tho. Being married doesnt automaticallly mean you love a person more surely?

I think its about choice and I wouldnt wanna belittle all the cohabiting couples who've been together forever by diminishing thier feelings for one another. If they wanna sercure themselves in other ways cant they do it legally as much as is possible without the wedding?

Totally not into being told I have a legal right to take someone elses money and belongings without that having been a concious decision from both of us. Crikey you could just be a serial relationship person, move into peoples houses and walk away with S*** loads - without any input you could end up owning your own home on the back of other peoples hard work. That may sound cynical but not everyone is fair - especially not where relationship break-ups are concerned. It takes the edge of bieng in love if you ask me and gives no room for error of judgement.

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Postby SUPERBAD on Sun Aug 05, 2007 11:42 pm

noodles wrote:
SUPERBAD wrote:Cohabitation is not the same love as married love.
If it were, cohabitators would have no excuse for not getting married.
Cohabitators, especially men, cohabitate because it's easier to leave the other with less fuss than marriage.
Which of course then means marriage has more love in it than cohabitating does.


In theory that sounds ok, not sure if its reality tho. Being married doesnt automaticallly mean you love a person more surely?

I think its about choice and I wouldnt wanna belittle all the cohabiting couples who've been together forever by diminishing thier feelings for one another. If they wanna sercure themselves in other ways cant they do it legally as much as is possible without the wedding?

Totally not into being told I have a legal right to take someone elses money and belongings without that having been a concious decision from both of us. Crikey you could just be a serial relationship person, move into peoples houses and walk away with S*** loads - without any input you could end up owning your own home on the back of other peoples hard work. That may sound cynical but not everyone is fair - especially not where relationship break-ups are concerned. It takes the edge of bieng in love if you ask me and gives no room for error of judgement.


Where are the vows for cohabitation?
Is "till death do us part" in those vows?


That's what separates the men from the boys.

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Postby Blonde-Bimbo on Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:12 am

SUPERBAD wrote:
Where are the vows for cohabitation?
Is "till death do us part" in those vows?


That's what separates the men from the boys.


You do not need to take vows to prove your love for your partner. At the end of the day, marriage is nothing more than a piece of paper and a ring.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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Postby THAT_GUEST on Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:43 am

and a pompous, over rated ceremony!
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Postby Winky89 on Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:53 am

Aw, I feel all gooey over weddings at the moment. I think they're a good way to celebrate the relationship so far, so mum and james were celebrating their 5/6 years together, owning 2 different houses together at different times and moving to Scotland and still being able to be in the same room together.

The ceremony was beautiful, very simple, they chose the vows from a long list so it was exactly what they wanted. My sister played the cello as they walked down the aisle and back again and I read out "The Art of a Good Marriage". I've never seen Mum so genuinely happy all that day. And James clearly adores her.

However, it was done with more thought to what mum wanted it like than to how the guests would like it. Obviously mum wanted everything perfect, and since it made her happy James did too. Once the meal and ceremony were over though, Mum's 4inch heels came off and she danced and mingled, no pretences, just plain fun :)

If the ceremony was done expensively I think it would have been different, say if money was no object. However, she made all the favour boxes and name cards and invitations and god knows what else herself and a friend did the cake and faux-flowers. Also, the photographer was a family friend who took photos all night, we've now got them on disc so we're free to print out what we want.

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Postby SUPERBAD on Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:06 pm

Blonde-Bimbo wrote:
SUPERBAD wrote:
Where are the vows for cohabitation?
Is "till death do us part" in those vows?


That's what separates the men from the boys.


You do not need to take vows to prove your love for your partner. At the end of the day, marriage is nothing more than a piece of paper and a ring.


TOP TEN REASONS WHY MARRIAGE IS GOOD FOR YOU:

10. IT'S SAFER. Marriage lowers the risk that both men and women will become victims of violence, including domestic violence. A 1994 Justice Department report, based on the National Crime Victimization Survey, found that single and divorced women were four to five times more likely to be victims of violence in any given year than wives; bachelors were four times more likely to be violent-crime victims than husbands. Two-thirds of acts of violence against women committed by intimate partners were not committed by husbands but by boyfriends (whether live-in or not) or former husbands or boyfriends. As one scholar sums up the relevant research: "Regardless of methodology, the studies yielded similar results: cohabitors engage in more violence than spouses." Linda Waite conducted an analysis of the National Survey of Families and Households for our new book. She found that, even after controlling for education, race, age, and gender, people who live together are still three times more likely to say their arguments got physical (such as kicking, hitting, or shoving) in the past year than married couples.

9. IT CAN SAVE YOUR LIFE. Married people live longer and healthier lives. The power of marriage is particularly evident in late middle age. When Linda Waite and a colleague, for example, analyzed mortality differentials in a very large, nationally representative sample, they found an astonishingly large "marriage gap" in longevity: nine out of ten married guys who are alive at 48 will make it to age 65, compared with just six in ten comparable single guys (controlling for race, education, and income). For women, the protective benefits of marriage are also powerful, though not quite as large. Nine out of ten wives alive at age 48 will live to be senior citizens, compared with just eight out of ten divorced and single women.

In fact, according to statisticians Bernard Cohen and I-Sing Lee, who compiled a catalog of relative mortality risks, "being unmarried is one of the greatest risks that people voluntarily subject themselves to." Having heart disease, for example, reduces a man's life expectancy by just under six years, while being unmarried chops almost ten years off a man's life. This is not just a selection effect: even controlling for initial health status, sick people who are married live longer than their unmarried counterparts. Having a spouse, for example, lowers a cancer patient's risk of dying from the disease as much as being in an age category ten years younger. A recent study of outcomes for surgical patients found that just being married lowered a patient's risk of dying in the hospital. For perhaps more obvious reasons, the risk a hospital patient will be discharged to a nursing home was two and a half times greater if the patient was unmarried. Scientists who have studied immune functioning in the laboratory find that happily married couples have better-functioning immune systems. Divorced people, even years after the divorce, show much lower levels of immune function.

8. IT CAN SAVE YOUR KID'S LIFE. Children lead healthier, longer lives if parents get and stay married. Adults who fret about second-hand smoke and drunk driving would do well to focus at least some of their attention on this point. In one long-term study that followed a sample of highly advantaged children (middle-class whites with IQs of at least 135) up through their seventies, a parent's divorce knocked four years off the adult child's life expectancy. Forty-year-olds from divorced homes were three times more likely to die from all causes than 40-year-olds whose parents stayed married.

7. YOU WILL EARN MORE MONEY. Men today tend to think of marriage as a consumption item—a financial burden. But a broad and deep body of scientific literature suggests that for men especially, marriage is a productive institution—as important as education in boosting a man's earnings. In fact, getting a wife may increase an American male's salary by about as much as a college education. Married men make, by some estimates, as much as 40 percent more money than comparable single guys, even after controlling for education and job history. The longer a man stays married, the higher the marriage premium he receives. Wives' earnings also benefit from marriage, but they decline when motherhood enters the picture. Childless white wives get a marriage wage premium of 4 percent, and black wives earn 10 percent more than comparable single women.

6. DID I MENTION YOU'LL GET MUCH RICHER? Married people not only make more money, they manage money better and build more wealth together than either would alone. At identical income levels, for example, married people are less likely to report "economic hardship" or trouble paying basic bills. The longer you stay married, the more assets you build; by contrast, length of cohabitation has no relationship to wealth accumulation. On the verge of retirement, the average married couple has accumulated assets worth about $410,000, compared with $167,000 for the never-married and $154,000 for the divorced. Couples who stayed married in one study saw their assets increase twice as fast as those who had remained divorced over a five-year period.

5. YOU'LL TAME HIS CHEATIN' HEART (HERS, TOO). Marriage increases sexual fidelity. Cohabiting men are four times more likely to cheat than husbands, and cohabiting women are eight times more likely to cheat than wives. Marriage is also the only realistic promise of permanence in a romantic relationship. Just one out of ten cohabiting couples are still cohabiting after five years. By contrast, 80 percent of couples marrying for the first time are still married five years later, and close to 60 percent (if current divorce rates continue) will marry for life. One British study found that biological parents who marry are three times more likely still to be together two years later than biological two-parent families who cohabit, even after controlling for maternal age, education, economic hardship, previous relationship failure, depression, and relationship quality. Marriage may be riskier than it once was, but when it comes to making love last, there is still no better bet.

4. YOU WON'T GO BONKERS. Marriage is good for your mental health. Married men and women are less depressed, less anxious, and less psychologically distressed than single, divorced, or widowed Americans. By contrast, getting divorced lowers both men's and women's mental health, increasing depression and hostility, and lowering one's self-esteem and sense of personal mastery and purpose in life.

And this is not just a statistical illusion: careful researchers who have tracked individuals as they move toward marriage find that it is not just that happy, healthy people marry; instead, getting married gives individuals a powerful mental health boost. Nadine Marks and James Lambert looked at changes in the psychological health of a large sample of Americans in the late eighties and early nineties. They measured psychological well-being at the outset and then watched what happened to individuals over the next years as they married, remained single, or divorced. When people married, their mental health improved—consistently and substantially. When people divorced, they suffered substantial deterioration in mental and emotional well-being, including increases in depression and declines in reported happiness. Those who divorced over this period also reported a lower sense of personal mastery, less positive relations with others, less sense of purpose in life, and lower levels of self-acceptance than their married peers did.

Married men are only half as likely as bachelors and one-third as likely as divorced guys to take their own lives. Wives are also much less likely to commit suicide than single, divorced, or widowed women. Married people are much less likely to have problems with alcohol abuse or illegal drugs. In a recent national survey, one out of four single men ages 19 to 26 say their drinking causes them problems at work or problems with aggression, compared with just one out of seven married guys this age.

3. IT WILL MAKE YOU HAPPY. For most people, the joys of the single life and of divorce are overrated. Overall, 40 percent of married people, compared with about a quarter of singles or cohabitors, say they are "very happy" with life in general. Married people are also only about half as likely as singles or cohabitors to say they are unhappy with their lives.

How happy are the divorced? If people divorce in order to be happy, as we are often told, the majority should demand their money back. Just 18 percent of divorced adults say they are "very happy," and divorced adults are twice as likely as married folk to say they are "not too happy" with life in general. Only a minority of divorcing adults go on to make marriages that are happier than the one they left. "Divorce or be miserable," certain cultural voices tell us, but, truth be told, "Divorce and be miserable" is at least as likely an outcome.

This is not just an American phenomenon. One recent study by Steven Stack and J. Ross Eshleman of 17 developed nations found that "married persons have a significantly higher level of happiness than persons who are not married," even after controlling for gender, age, education, children, church attendance, financial satisfaction, and self-reported health. Further, "the strength of the association between being married and being happy is remarkably consistent across nations." Marriage boosted financial satisfaction and health. But being married conferred a happiness advantage over and above its power to improve the pocketbook and the health chart. Cohabitation, by contrast, did not increase financial satisfaction or perceived health, and the boost to happiness from having a live-in lover was only about a quarter of that of being married. Another large study, of 100,000 Norwegians, found that, with both men and women, "the married have the highest level of subjective well-being, followed by the widowed." Even long-divorced people who cohabited were not any happier than singles.

2. YOUR KIDS WILL LOVE YOU MORE. Divorce weakens the bonds between parents and children over the long run. Adult children of divorce describe relationships with both their mother and their father less positively, on average, and they are about 40 percent less likely than adults from intact marriages to say they see either parent at least several times a week.

1. YOU'LL HAVE BETTER SEX, MORE OFTEN. Despite the lurid Sex in the City marketing that promises singles erotic joys untold, both husbands and wives are more likely to report that they have an extremely satisfying sex life than are singles or cohabitors. (Divorced women were the least likely to have a sex life they found extremely satisfying emotionally.) For one thing, married people are more likely to have a sex life. Single men are 20 times more likely, and single women ten times more likely, not to have had sex even once in the past year than the married. (Almost a quarter of single guys and 30 percent of single women lead sexless lives.)

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Postby Blonde-Bimbo on Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:31 pm

I'm not convinced. Sorry.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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Postby SUPERBAD on Mon Aug 06, 2007 2:17 pm

Blonde-Bimbo wrote: At the end of the day, marriage is nothing more than a piece of paper and a ring.


If that were true you would have no objections to getting them.
Especially if you really love each other.

So you are stuck in your own paradox.
If they truly mean nothing you have no argument to not get them.

That logic is undeniable to men.

So, basically if you love a man and accept his similar reason for not marrying you are really lying to yourself about the situation you are in.

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Postby Blonde-Bimbo on Mon Aug 06, 2007 4:58 pm

SUPERBAD wrote:
Blonde-Bimbo wrote: At the end of the day, marriage is nothing more than a piece of paper and a ring.


If that were true you would have no objections to getting them.
Especially if you really love each other.

So you are stuck in your own paradox.
If they truly mean nothing you have no argument to not get them.

That logic is undeniable to men.

So, basically if you love a man and accept his similar reason for not marrying you are really lying to yourself about the situation you are in.


I don't have any objections to marrying him.

But I still don't think marriage is necessary. I don't NEED to get married to be happy within my relationship.

If they truly mean nothing you have no argument to not get them.


Yes, I agree, but it also means I have no reason to get married. It means nothing after all, doesn't it?
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

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Postby SUPERBAD on Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:55 pm

Blonde-Bimbo wrote:
SUPERBAD wrote:
Blonde-Bimbo wrote: At the end of the day, marriage is nothing more than a piece of paper and a ring.


If that were true you would have no objections to getting them.
Especially if you really love each other.

So you are stuck in your own paradox.
If they truly mean nothing you have no argument to not get them.

That logic is undeniable to men.

So, basically if you love a man and accept his similar reason for not marrying you are really lying to yourself about the situation you are in.


I don't have any objections to marrying him.

But I still don't think marriage is necessary. I don't NEED to get married to be happy within my relationship.

If they truly mean nothing you have no argument to not get them.


Yes, I agree, but it also means I have no reason to get married. It means nothing after all, doesn't it?


If it meant nothing the government would not have to step in and make laws to protect the weaker of the sex and the children.
In one sense the government is stepping in because other women like you "settle" for your current arrangement instead of getting married and insuring your rights from the start.
So, basically the government is becoming your mother and stepping in to take care of an arrangement your were irresponsible with from the start.
Last edited by SUPERBAD on Mon Aug 06, 2007 7:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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