How come gays are born defective?

[The Colonel]

Therefore the fact that homosexuality in humans exists means either one of two things. Either there is a gene (or a group of genes) for homosexuality and that those genes continue to be passed on and are therefore fit (adapted) to their environment or there is no gene for homosexuality and it’s learned or random behaviour.

All valid points. With the above, we must consider another possibility. Genotype and phenotype are not always directly correlated. The three possibilities are:

1. Expression of the trait purely due to genetic factors. Applied to homosexuality, this would incur no choice whatsoever on the part of the individual, much like someone cannot changes their eye color.

2. Genetic predisposition to the trait. In this case, the genetics exist to support the trait, but an environmental factor must also be present for the trait to be expressed. Many mental disorders, autoimmune disease, allergies, certain types of heart disease, etc., all fall into this category.

3. Non-genetic basis. Purely a learned behavior.

I have a tendancy to lean toward #2. Evidence supporting this view is the ability of a person to change their sexual orientation.

Scientific fact shows this is impossible.

[The Colonel]

If it's genetic...it's a genetic DEFECT!
Because of the fact they are born with HETEROSEXUAL reproductive organs!

Male reproductive organs are NOT just for reproduction you fool.

Testosterone, which is produced there, is important for (amongst other things)

- Sex drive,
- Muscle development
- Bone strength and maturation

Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone#Prenatal_androgen_effects

Scroll down to Virilizing and effects on humans, and you will see the NUMEROUS reasons they are important.

[Fred75]

If it's genetic...it's a genetic DEFECT!
Because of the fact they are born with HETEROSEXUAL reproductive organs!

Male reproductive organs are NOT just for reproduction you fool.
Correct. They can go into other men, boys and farm animals.

Testosterone, which is produced there, is important for (amongst other things)

- Sex drive,
- Muscle development
- Bone strength and maturation

Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone#Prenatal_androgen_effects

Scroll down to Virilizing and effects on humans, and you will see the NUMEROUS reasons they are important.

The DEFECT is they are useless in male to male reproduction!

The DEFECT is they cannot reproduce with one another!

The DEFECT is they are born with a set of heterosexual organs!

[The Colonel]

If it's genetic...it's a genetic DEFECT!
Because of the fact they are born with HETEROSEXUAL reproductive organs!

Male reproductive organs are NOT just for reproduction you fool.
Correct. They can go into other men, boys and farm animals.

Testosterone, which is produced there, is important for (amongst other things)

- Sex drive,
- Muscle development
- Bone strength and maturation

Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone#Prenatal_androgen_effects

Scroll down to Virilizing and effects on humans, and you will see the NUMEROUS reasons they are important.

The DEFECT is they are useless in male to male reproduction!

The DEFECT is they cannot reproduce with one another!

The DEFECT is they are born with a set of heterosexual organs!

And what about heterosexual men who can't have kids?

They must be even more defective.

You are an idiot. They are not just for reproduction.

I am getting very pissed off with you.

[Fred75]

If it's genetic...it's a genetic DEFECT!
Because of the fact they are born with HETEROSEXUAL reproductive organs!

Male reproductive organs are NOT just for reproduction you fool.
Correct. They can go into other men, boys and farm animals.

Testosterone, which is produced there, is important for (amongst other things)

- Sex drive,
- Muscle development
- Bone strength and maturation

Here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone#Prenatal_androgen_effects

Scroll down to Virilizing and effects on humans, and you will see the NUMEROUS reasons they are important.

The DEFECT is they are useless in male to male reproduction!

The DEFECT is they cannot reproduce with one another!

The DEFECT is they are born with a set of heterosexual organs!

And what about heterosexual men who can't have kids?

They must be even more defective.

It's why it's called defective!
I would have thought that obvious!

[Fred75]

You are an idiot. They are not just for reproduction.

I am getting very pissed off with you.

Don't get mad at me!
Get mad at the LGBT groups that HATE and do not allow those that bugger boys and farm animals into their group!

[myron myron]

My questions directed to Fred incorporate tendentious comments posted by Fred in this and other threads about homosexuals.

My intentions in posing those questions to Fred are as follows:

1) to elicit Fred's perceptions of homosexuals as individuals;

2) to elicit Fred's position on how society should treat homosexuals given Fred's stated views that they are "defective" as people;

3) to challenge Fred to reconcile his statement that "gays are born defective" in terms of natural selection and "survival of the fittest" with the fact that gays have not been "naturally selected" out of the gene pool or decreased in numbers over more than 2,500 years; and,

4) to challenge Fred to reconcile his statements that homosexuality is learned rather than inherited (which contradict his "gays are born defective" position) in light of the fact that the same parents who have a homosexual child also may have heterosexual children of the same gender and even the same age.

My ultimate purpose is to conform in my mind mind whether Fred has serious views, however disturbing they may be, or if he is just tugging everyone's chain to get his jollies. I already decided which it is; I just want to confirm I am right.

We treat them JUSTLY as we do those that are innately born to love children and farm animals.

I have a friend called Karen. We grew up together.

Karen's parents were first generation Irish Catholics who got married young and had 6 kids.

Her father was the model family man: worked hard, started his own business, provided for his family, spent time with his kids, put all his kids through college, went to church regularly and donated to the church. He was dignified, reserved and respected by all.

Karen was the youngest of the siblings and the last to get married, at age 24.

A few months after Karen was married, her father came out. Her parents subsequently divorced.

Karen’s father was in his mid to late 50s when he came out.

How do you reconcile Karen's father with your conception of gay men?

Should Karen’s father be treated ”JUSTLY as we do those that are innately born to love children and farm animals”?

Well... thinking about something is not illegal.
The ACT is.

And I feel sorry for karens family... His lies caused a lot of pain.

Which "act" is illegal? Homosexual sex between consenting adults is perfectly legal in the entire United States.

Karen's father did not cheat during more than 30 years of marriage. Her parents' divorce was amicable. They remain best friends. He was a good husband and a good father to his six children, all of whom love him and remain close to him.

Karen's father is a gay man who reproduced six times by heterosexual intercourse. How do you reconcile this with your stated views that "gays are born defective" in terms of natural selection and have "useless genitalia of reproduction"?

[Fred75]

[size=13]Which "act" is illegal? Homosexual sex between consenting adults is perfectly legal in the entire United States.

Tell us... why do they not throw two 13 year old children in jail if they have sex with each other?

Is it because it's morally right to let them do that?

[Fred75]

Karen's father is a gay man who reproduced six times by heterosexual intercourse. How do you reconcile this with your stated views that "gays are born defective" in terms of natural selection and have "useless genitalia of reproduction"?

[/size]

That's easy.
He understood his defect would fail him in the reproductive arena when his boyfriend failed to give birth out his arse!

[myron myron]

Which "act" is illegal? Homosexual sex between consenting adults is perfectly legal in the entire United States.

Tell us... why do they not throw two 13 year old children in jail if they have sex with each other?

Is it because it's morally right to let them do that?

Don't try to change the subject.

In reply to my post about my friend Karen's father, you said that "thinking about something is not illegal. The ACT is."

Those are your words.

Which "act" were you referring to as "illegal"?

[Fred75]

[size=13]Which "act" is illegal? Homosexual sex between consenting adults is perfectly legal in the entire United States.

I wish you would explain to the COLONEL that abortion is legal and that makes it OK too!

[Fred75]

Which "act" is illegal? Homosexual sex between consenting adults is perfectly legal in the entire United States.

Tell us... why do they not throw two 13 year old children in jail if they have sex with each other?

Is it because it's morally right to let them do that?

Don't try to change the subject.

In reply to my post about my friend Karen's father, you said that "thinking about something is not illegal. The ACT is."

Those are your words.

Which "act" were you referring to as "illegal"?

I'm not changing the subject!
You implied that because the law allows it, it makes it right!
Well... if the law allows it then there must be a sane reason for allowing 13 years olds to screw like bunnies...tell us the legal reason why?

[myron myron]

Karen's father is a gay man who reproduced six times by heterosexual intercourse. How do you reconcile this with your stated views that "gays are born defective" in terms of natural selection and have "useless genitalia of reproduction"?

That's easy.
He understood his defect would fail him in the reproductive arena when his boyfriend failed to give birth out his arse!

With respect to the questions I posed to you at the top of page 3 of this thread, I stated as follows:

My ultimate purpose is to confirm in my mind whether Fred has serious views, however disturbing they may be, or if he is just tugging everyone's chain to get his jollies. I already decided which it is; I just want to confirm I am right.

Thanks for confirming that I am right.

See ya.

[Bobin]

Therefore the fact that homosexuality in humans exists means either one of two things. Either there is a gene (or a group of genes) for homosexuality and that those genes continue to be passed on and are therefore fit (adapted) to their environment or there is no gene for homosexuality and it’s learned or random behaviour.

All valid points. With the above, we must consider another possibility. Genotype and phenotype are not always directly correlated. The three possibilities are:

1. Expression of the trait purely due to genetic factors. Applied to homosexuality, this would incur no choice whatsoever on the part of the individual, much like someone cannot changes their eye color.

2. Genetic predisposition to the trait. In this case, the genetics exist to support the trait, but an environmental factor must also be present for the trait to be expressed. Many mental disorders, autoimmune disease, allergies, certain types of heart disease, etc., all fall into this category.

3. Non-genetic basis. Purely a learned behavior.

I have a tendancy to lean toward #2. Evidence supporting this view is the ability of a person to change their sexual orientation.

Scientific fact shows this is impossible.

Please cite your supporting research.

For your statement to be true, any observed behavior is found to contradict the scientific facts must be explained. If something is represented as fact, but observations suggest otherwise, either the word theory or opinion would be a better chioce.

Based upon other posts on this board, you have stated that one of your sons is a homosexual. For you to agree with proposition #2, that would also require the environmental factors in which he was raised to be placed under examination as a contributing factor. Your disagreement with my position is therefore understandable.

Here's a well-quoted research study which supports the theory of environmental factors playing a role:
http://www.psych.northwestern.edu/psych/people/faculty/bailey/Publications/Bailey%20et%20al.%20twins,2000.pdf

I could quote more, but unless you have a paid on-line subscription, you cannot access them.

[Fred75]

See ya.


[/size]

WHO'S NEXT?

And please... do not TRY if you have a weak stomach to the graphic reality of what two gay men do together in order to consummate their love!