IMMIGRANTS, NOT BRITS MUST ADAPT

[WiredCoffeeJunkie]

Pseudonym,

I'm sorry for being a "prick" because, in your own words, I look at the world through economics, logic and ethics. I understand these topics fairly well and enjoy praticing them. They allow the creation of premises, arguement and justify an opinion.

I find looking in everyone's heart and deciding what's "right" or wrong" for everyone else based on how I "feel about it" unethical, illogical and wasteful.

Not a condemnation of your world view, simply an observation.

[tripbug]

normally people with racist idea are people who feel they are being left behind in their lives.they feel left out and have to take their frustration out on people who are easy targets. racist are haters of people from different cultures but ultimately self haters, so not really happy people and they should be left to hate themselves in peace.

[WiredCoffeeJunkie]

normally people with racist idea are people who feel they are being left behind in their lives.they feel left out and have to take their frustration out on people who are easy targets. racist are haters of people from different cultures but ultimately self haters, so not really happy people and they should be left to hate themselves in peace.

All that sounds plausable, but I disagree.

Racist ideas might be some sort of self hate, but I think it's more reasonable to assume there's an actual reason for it. If the reason for the racism is removed then the racism can be removed.

Imagine racism might be triggered by a perception that immigrants are lazy and unwilling to do anything but suck resources from the hard earned taxes of other people while popping out child after child to be raised on the back of taxpayers.

Now imagine you came from utter poverty and the terror of someone you love dieing in the night from disease or murder, to a strange country where everyone seems to hate you. Your job is back breaking and you fear every night that you won't be able to put food on the table.

Now imagine everyone you know has child after child so they can be sure of having someone to take care of them. Think of it as a guarenteed insurance policy. You know some people hate you for it, but the people who matter, friends and family, are doing the same thing.

[edit]Note that I don't say they don't love their children, nor do I say they don't want the best for their children. However, it's very obvious that westerners have far less children and the reason is the difficulty of preparing (economically) their children for life in the western world. I don't disregard familial feelings in case you got that impression.

[WiredCoffeeJunkie]

Much of what I see in Europe reminds me of the Watts riots and civil problems we had in the US a few decades back.

The way immigration should work is that hard working people immigrate. They work hard at low wages and provide services, from convenience stores to lawn services. This increases their living standard and that of the whole country they immigrated to. They have children that understand both cultures and are educated to become citizens of the country. They work hard and become members of society, often at jobs that become almost humorously racially segregated. Lawyers for Jews perhaps, police for Irish. Their children however become mainstream members of society.

What seems to happen sometimes, with Blacks in the USA and Mideasterners in Europe is that they are never allowed to become mainstream members of society. Why, I don't know.

Recently in the US I have noticed a concerted effort to bring Blacks into the mainstream. I think some may have noticed the increase in advertisements featuring middle class blacks (rather than the odd poor token black) as well as movies that portray blacks as either mainstream regular "Joes", upper middle class, or even often as heroes. A racial identity is wonderful, provided it's something society allows you to be proud of it. I hope it works.

[Felicias]

...

[WiredCoffeeJunkie]

What seems to happen sometimes, with Blacks in the USA and Mideasterners in Europe is that they are never allowed to become mainstream members of society. Why, I don't know.

Interesting thought. Could you give a few examples what you mean by mainstream member ?

Here in the USA it would be a white picket house, dog, SUV and a couple of children. White skin, because other skin colors often have a different connotation in the public perception, both among colored and non-colored.

"The black middle class and their residential enclaves are nearly invisible to the nonblack public because of the intense (and mostly negative) attention given to poor urban ghettos." [Black Picket Fences, Mary Pattillo-McCoy]

And many blacks concider middle class blacks to be sell outs or "Crosby blacks", which is a reference to a popular television show that portrayed a upper middle class black family.

It's all perception rather than a reality, but perceptions seem to make reality sometimes. I hope the media continues to work intelligently to counter these perceptions of both poor urban ghettos and middle class American Blacks. It would be nice if we were just Americans.

[Lena]

WCJ , I always thought you are a gutsy guy and you are proving it here . Talking about race like this is for some reason not something you are supposed to do here in America . It can really make many white and black people ansy . Definitely not the kind of talk you do in public around alcohol either.

Too bad to since it is a important issue and we should all at least know what each other is thinking . Keeping things quiet really doesn't solve a problem .I heard a black college teacher on the radio say something that when you think about it makes lot of sense . That is the economic decline here is doing more to get in the way of blacks getting ahead the anything esle since like everyone else there are fewer and fewer jobs and makes racism stronger since white people are scared of holding on to what they have in the face of the economic decline . One thing that he also said that sounded racist but had me thinking and worrying was the fact that a hundred years from now America will be a mostly hispanic country where we all speak spainish . Then white and black people will be second class citizens in there own land with everything going to the hispanics . Eeeck , we may all may end up moving to Canada and taking there country from them ....................

[WiredCoffeeJunkie]

WCJ , I always thought you are a gutsy guy and you are proving it here . Talking about race like this is for some reason not something you are supposed to do here in America . It can really make many white and black people ansy . Definitely not the kind of talk you do in public around alcohol either .

No I agree. Not bar talk, but it is the type of issue that needs a Junto.

[Lena]

WCJ , I always thought you are a gutsy guy and you are proving it here . Talking about race like this is for some reason not something you are supposed to do here in America . It can really make many white and black people ansy . Definitely not the kind of talk you do in public around alcohol either .

No I agree. Not bar talk, but it is the type of issue that needs a Junto.

Just saw what a Junto is , a talking club ? Good idea to discuss .I have to go lock the doors in case any mexicans try getting in our apartment ......................

[WiredCoffeeJunkie]

You bad!

[Lena]

Hee hee , worse has been said about me as you know . Actually tonite I am meeting a friend for dinner who is black . We go way back . Instead of race stuff it's always girl talk . Funny , at 13 we talked about music , boys , who was selling pot for less, at 17 about all that stuff plus birth control , at 21 dam men ( sorry Mike ) roommates , and now at 25 her kids and home buying . At this rate in a few years we'll be at some restaurent talking about spreading bootys and menopause . May ask her where we should all head to in Canada though after the mexicans take over.....................

[tripbug]

[

quote]All that sounds plausable, but I disagree.

Racist ideas might be some sort of self hate, but I think it's more reasonable to assume there's an actual reason for it. If the reason for the racism is removed then the racism can be removed.

Imagine racism might be triggered by a perception that immigrants are lazy and unwilling to do anything but suck resources from the hard earned taxes of other people while popping out child after child to be raised on the back of taxpayers.

Now imagine you came from utter poverty and the terror of someone you love dieing in the night from disease or murder, to a strange country where everyone seems to hate you. Your job is back breaking and you fear every night that you won't be able to put food on the table.

Now imagine everyone you know has child after child so they can be sure of having someone to take care of them. Think of it as a guarenteed insurance policy. You know some people hate you for it, but the people who matter, friends and family, are doing the same thing.

[edit]Note that I don't say they don't love their children, nor do I say they don't want the best for their children. However, it's very obvious that westerners have far less children and the reason is the difficulty of preparing (economically) their children for life in the western world. I don't disregard familial feelings in case you got that impression

Your family maybe went to the usa under similar circustances many years ago.there are reasons for fear of other people changing your way of life or putting your job on the line but not for hating a person for their skin or creed. racism has no rational. hate is destructive to the hater and the hated. coutries and cities do change and you have to adapt . most of the people who come to my city from other countries work hard and contribute to the life of my city. i welcome them as do most, it makes life better for all.[/color]

[Lena]

I'm all for letting anyone in who actually wants to be a American . The problem is we are being invaded by millions of illegal aliens from south America who want the benefits of living in America but don't want to be Americans . Most don't even want to learn how to speak english . No one is doing anything about this at all so it's only getting worse . In 100 years we'll be the UNITED STATES OF NORTHERN MEXICO . ' Ole

[WiredCoffeeJunkie]

Your family maybe went to the usa under similar circustances many years ago.there are reasons for fear of other people changing your way of life or putting your job on the line but not for hating a person for their skin or creed. racism has no rational. hate is destructive to the hater and the hated. coutries and cities do change and you have to adapt . most of the people who come to my city from other countries work hard and contribute to the life of my city. i welcome them as do most, it makes life better for all.[/color]

Hear hear. Racists don't hate in peace though. In my opinion fear may start racism, but it's addressing the ignorance that stops the fear.

[tripbug]

HI lena how are you?well before you were there,native american indian whatever you call them were the norm and just 200 years ago lots of the states were spannish or french .things change. unless your an indian , your family arrived there and changed things.