men fashion freedom

[KiltyCol]

do you like high heels Col?

No, Alf.
I don't like wearing trousers and prefer something more comfortable as a lower body garment.
I don't like wearing neckties.
I don't like wearing jewellery or watches.
I like normal flat mens shoes, pumps and trainers. High heeled shoes are bad for the posture and cause back problems.
Apart from the kilts and sarongs, I am much the same as the majority of boring conformist men.
I do, however, respect other people's right to choose what they wear.
That is what fashion freedom is all about. I respect your right, Alf, to choose what you want to wear.

[Usquanigo]

do you like high heels Col?

No, Alf.
I don't like wearing trousers and prefer something more comfortable as a lower body garment.
I don't like wearing neckties.
I don't like wearing jewellery or watches.
I like normal flat mens shoes, pumps and trainers. High heeled shoes are bad for the posture and cause back problems.
Apart from the kilts and sarongs, I am much the same as the majority of boring conformist men.
I do, however, respect other people's right to choose what they wear.
That is what fashion freedom is all about. I respect your right, Alf, to choose what you want to wear.

There you go again about "fashion freedom", with a supplemental dig at "boring conformity", referring to any male who dresses like one, and not a woman.

Interesting.

So tell me then, if you see, let's say for the sake of example, this guy - http://www.redkid.net/generator/punk/yoursign.jpg

What would your initial impression and thoughts of him be? And be honest.

[KiltyCol]

Come on Col reply!

Not my style, but each to their own.

[Usquanigo]

Come on Col reply!

Not my style, but each to their own.

You're dodging the question. What is your overall impression of, and thoughts about someone looking like that?

Not whether you like it or not, not whether you think it's "ok" or not. No "politically correct" answers or any other sort of question avoidance. It makes it impossible to actually have a conversation when you do things like that.

[KiltyCol]

Dodging the question- naughty Colin

He / she isn't me. Must be the bad Colin that lives down the drain (glug, glug, bubble, bubble). It is easy to be put off the outward appearance, but let's say you had an accident and he/she was the only one to come and help, you would see a Good Samaritan and be very grateful.
We can't judge solely by outward appearance.

[Usquanigo]

Dodging the question- naughty Colin

He / she isn't me. Must be the bad Colin that lives down the drain (glug, glug, bubble, bubble). It is easy to be put off the outward appearance, but let's say you had an accident and he/she was the only one to come and help, you would see a Good Samaritan and be very grateful.
We can't judge solely by outward appearance.

I had a feeling you would do this. lol

Come on now, it's a simple question. You yell at Alf because he only shouts at you, and I'm trying to have a conversation and you won't participate.

I don't want to know if you like his look, or if you think he's a good person, I want to know what it communicates to you. How much more can I spell it out? Stop beating around the bush, playing it "politically correct" and dodging the question. Describe him to me from your perspective, not the colors, not the get up, the person. You can do this. Come on.....

[Usquanigo]

I think he's trying to avoid the question....

[alberty]

From what I can see he did answer the question. He’s saying its not he’s type of thing but each to there own a.k.a he believes everyone had the right to wear what they want.

What you’re attempting to ask is what that outfit is communicating correct, but this strays from the original point of this topic. That outfit in the pic says what it would say to anyone, he’s a hard rocker, probably into heavy metal, kind of a punk rocker image. This is what it says to everyone that looks at him and that’s what this person in the pic wants. So my question to you Usquanigo is what does this have to do with fashion freedom?

Ok some people will think to themselves ‘god what an awful appearance’ and if someone sees a guy in a pink skirt they may think ‘why are they in women’s clothing’. This doesn’t stop fashion freedom at all. Because fashion freedom isn’t what other people think. It means someone who believes in fashion freedom will accept what others choose to wear weather they like the outfit or not. A.k.a what col has said. If more people thought this then people who do for example cross dress wouldn’t get assholes come up to them and say ‘god you look stupid’. If everyone believed in fashion freedom then cross dressers and other wouldn’t get harassed and would be able to get on with there lives.

This post is trying to increase the number of people that believe in fashion freedom, this post is trying to get the point that even if you don’t approve of what someone’s wearing. Don’t bother them, if you don’t like the appearance then leave them alone. Its not you who’s wearing the outfit so why bother, why not just accept ok I think they look stupid but that’s just me and carry on with you’re life. Instead of doing what alf does and run home and harass people who believe in it on here where he’s safe behind he’s computer screen.

p.s. just like to point out that col has never said he wears skirts, kilts are a man’s garment, traditionally worn in Scotland. If you think this is cross dressing then you’re pretty dam stupid if you ask me.

[Usquanigo]

From what I can see he did answer the question. He’s saying its not he’s type of thing but each to there own a.k.a he believes everyone had the right to wear what they want.

That wasn't the question being asked, and as such, he did not answer it.

What you’re attempting to ask is what that outfit is communicating correct, but this strays from the original point of this topic. That outfit in the pic says what it would say to anyone, he’s a hard rocker, probably into heavy metal, kind of a punk rocker image. This is what it says to everyone that looks at him and that’s what this person in the pic wants.

So my question to you Usquanigo is what does this have to do with fashion freedom?

You answered your own question before you asked it.

Clothes are a label, one that we apply to ourselves. They AWLAYS communicate something about us, whether we are aware of it or not, and whether we want it or not.

Fashion "freedom", isn't about the freedom to wear something, you have that. Wear a woman's bikni at the beach if you like, or sundress to the mall. Assuming it's got legal coverage, it may get you laughed at, but you are free to do so.

The real "goal" with these whining threads is to make it so that there is no distinction between male and female. That, ultimately, clothes no longer communicate anything about the wearer.

Either Col knew I was setting him up, or he has become so closed minded that he can't see the world around him.

And so there you have it, the nature of clothes, and the nature of gender, mean that cross dressing will never be as accepted as not. Even if you don't get laughed at or ridiculed, you WILL be passed over by single (and not-so-single) women.

BTW, it was punk, not "rocker". That verges on metal, and it's a totally different thing.

Ok some people will think to themselves ‘god what an awful appearance’ and if someone sees a guy in a pink skirt they may think ‘why are they in women’s clothing’. This doesn’t stop fashion freedom at all. Because fashion freedom isn’t what other people think.

Think about that for just a moment. If this was all about turning a truely blind eye to what other people wear, ignoring the handicap that creates, then why post _, trying to drum up support, and whining about how mean everyone is?

It IS about what other people think. It's about, as I mentioned above, being accepted as straight, and attractive, while dancing around in a dress or high-heels, without trying to be a TV or drag queen. And that's just NOT going to happen.

What people find attractive, and comforting, is signaled by the labels we don on the outside, and that lets people who desire those traits get closer. Non-punks will stay away from that guy in the pic, but other punks will find a brother. Likewise, strong, masculine men will not wear women's clothing, which is why straight women will not be interested in those who do. (ignoring lunatic fringe exceptions, there are ALWAYS exceptions - people win the lottery, but that doesn't mean that YOU will find a winning ticket any time soon)

If more people thought this then people who do for example cross dress wouldn’t get assholes come up to them and say ‘god you look stupid’. If everyone believed in fashion freedom then cross dressers and other wouldn’t get harassed and would be able to get on with there lives.

Proof that liberals are more into cencorship than Republicans. lol You want freedom of speech, only so long as it's acceptable to you.

Come on. Why is it SOOO hard for people to simply accept reality these days? I'm betting on too many people infesting the rock, meaning that too many are weak gened, and add the luxuries of modern society on top of it and they have all the time in the world to sit and mope about how "bad" everything is. Little more than a hundred years ago, you wouldn't have the time to CARE about this crap, much less sit and bemoan it.

Remember, you are a part of nature. It is neither good, nor bad, it simply exists, and it encompasses EVERYTHING. Including male aggressiveness, competition, and people who don't give a S*** about your fragile feelings telling you what they think of you.

And btw, if people acted this way in the late 1700's, there wouldn't be a United States of America.

This post is trying to increase the number of people that believe in fashion freedom, this post is trying to get the point that even if you don’t approve of what someone’s wearing. Don’t bother them, if you don’t like the appearance then leave them alone. Its not you who’s wearing the outfit so why bother, why not just accept ok I think they look stupid but that’s just me and carry on with you’re life. Instead of doing what alf does and run home and harass people who believe in it on here where he’s safe behind he’s computer screen.

p.s. just like to point out that col has never said he wears skirts, kilts are a man’s garment, traditionally worn in Scotland. If you think this is cross dressing then you’re pretty dam stupid if you ask me.

I've never once said anything was wrong with Kilts. Do some research on who you are responding to before you respond. Or even just lurk more first. It would benefit you.

And once again, you've circled the problem. A kilt is a man's garment, a skirt is not. Straight men will never do anything that seems feminine or "gay" to them. Thus, they will never wear a "skirt". This is compounded by the fact that straight women would not find a man in a skirt attractive. It's sort of a moebius strip.

With that in mind, let's point out that women DO like men in kilts, so long as they can pull it off and ooze masculinity (think Braveheart). So Col has a chance, right? But then along comes a horde of fem-boys, wearing their skirts and frilly knickers, acting like pooftas. People start to associate any sort of non-bifurcated lower garment on a guy with that lot. What do you think will happen? It's ensured NEVER to gain acceptance, that's what.

Likewise, I hate to see guys wear a billion toe rings, or girly toe rings, or girly ankle bracelets, or act or look feminine when they wear any of the above. Why? Becase _I_ wear A (stress, _1_) toe ring and often an ankle bracelet. It looks good. Chicks dig it. It gets me attention. And of course, I do enjoy it, but mostly because of all the above. And why is any of that possible? Because there is no stigma. No other guys in my area do this that I've seen. (well, unless you count 3 ankle bracelets (1 per guy) over the last several years) AND, because I do so in a masculine style - I am not feminine, my chrome is both made for a man, and has a masculine style of it's own, and I have been told that I all but exude masculinity by any women who have ever commented (all respond vehemently that I am not the least bit feminine). Thus, it works. So, what happens if fruits start bitin' my style? It becomes known as a sign of fruitiness and I'm screwed.

So THAT is why we (or at least I) argue with these people. Well, that and because it's fun, and why not? lol

Ditto ricers. Their obnoxious fart can exhausts and idiotic behaviors have lead to harsh exhaust laws and b***** traffic cops, and a slew of speed bumps and other road hazards. In other words, they are F****** it up for the rest of us. Live and let live seldom works. And that is reality.

[alberty]

Good post there by Usquanigo, some of the points you have made in that post are very true. Some a sad truth but the truth none the less.

My argument was never telling you to let them wear skirts because at the end of the day you mean very little to these people. And I’ll agree with what you’ve said in some other topics, most of the people you see talking on here don’t probably wear skirts out. Maybe round the house when there alone but I rarely see men in skirts.

My original argument was standing up for col really, although reading you have argues with col on his opinions and that I accept but I guess what got me was comments like this, this one made by alf.

do you like high heels Col?

Now to get this out the way first, and I know its hard for you to think for yourself alf but why did you say this. When did col say he wore heels or hinted it. Where did he say he was a cross dresser. He didn’t that’s why. Wile Usquanigo will back up he’s argument with proof and good points as seen you don’t, you don’t seem that smart to me afl and I cant find a post where you explain why you make up stuff or pick on people here. All you say is

W anker then.

and

Don't you just Drone on.

When some people are explaining there argument. You don’t come up with a reason to combat there argument like I’ve seen some doing.

What needs to happen here is that you need to accept that this is the only place where they can freely talk about wearing skirts. This as said in another post is there own little imaginary world for some, finding others that think like them to chat to about what they enjoy. Perhaps they get a kick from it I don’t know. But why are you getting so involved in this world of there’s, its never going to bother you so leave them and you wont get so frustrated with it.

The send thing that needs to happen is some of these skirt wearing or supposedly skirt wearing men need to accept that this is what they will have to deal with if they actually wear skirts out. Although this post is trying to stop people bothering then it won’t change the world. So if anything why not instead of changing others opinions, find ways to ignorer them.

[Usquanigo]

Good post there by Usquanigo, some of the points you have made in that post are very true. Some a sad truth but the truth none the less.

Not to be argumentitive, but do you mean to suggest that you "know better" than nature?

My argument was never telling you to let them wear skirts because at the end of the day you mean very little to these people. And I’ll agree with what you’ve said in some other topics, most of the people you see talking on here don’t probably wear skirts out. Maybe round the house when there alone but I rarely see men in skirts.

This brings us back to another point, similar to one I asked on the other side - they clearly have an obsession with skirts, and can never articulate what it is, or why they have it. For instance, you mention at home, why bother? If it's warm enough that you need the extra ventilation, don't wear anything. THAT is the most comfortable thing. If you really need to feel something against your skin, or if you have people in the house preventing you from going au natural, then get some silken lounge pants, they offer totally unobstructed range of movement, and are the second most comfortable thing there is to wear. And if it's chilly, then you want something with more coverage anyway. So it's not about comfort, it's not about anatomy, and kilts aren't good enough for them either, because they are a man's garment.

Are you beginning to see what's going on here?

What needs to happen here is that you need to accept that this is the only place where they can freely talk about wearing skirts. This as said in another post is there own little imaginary world for some, finding others that think like them to chat to about what they enjoy. Perhaps they get a kick from it I don’t know. But why are you getting so involved in this world of there’s, its never going to bother you so leave them and you wont get so frustrated with it.

We're back to freedom of speech again. Judging from your post, I would venture to guess that you think of yourself as being highly against censorship, on principle. Yet, you clearly advocate it here, in the name of political correctness. Alf is just as free to rip on these people, as they are to wear their knickers or come on here and talk about it.

Furthermore, it's not even like Alf went up to someone on the street and ripped into him, they came on here and invited comment. They put the spotlight on themselves and opened themselves up to comments of all kind, including those they don't like to see or hear.

The send thing that needs to happen is some of these skirt wearing or supposedly skirt wearing men need to accept that this is what they will have to deal with if they actually wear skirts out. Although this post is trying to stop people bothering then it won’t change the world. So if anything why not instead of changing others opinions, find ways to ignorer them.

As I've said in another post, people don't want equality, they want preferential treatment. Only it doesn't work that way.

[fatzke]

i think u all need to relise that it will never be accepted for men to wear women clothes..!!! and i is creepy and it is just wrong

I dont understand, what's the problem when men for example wear woman low cut Woman Strech Jeans and panties ? Look good and just fit more than men Jeans

[KiltyCol]

sissys, the lot of 'em

Can't you learn a new repertoire, Alf?

[Captain]

Are you ready to fight for freedom of men to wear all they like from tights to high heels?

No.

[fatzke]

Are you ready to fight for freedom of men to wear all they like from tights to high heels?

No.

Yes