PenisPeople Ruining the World

[Guest]

Hmmm, wasn't Guliani an unpopular Major of New York until he lucked out by happening to be the incumbent major at the time of the 9/11 attack and all of a sudden he was a hero? I don't mean to imply that there was anything lucky about the tragedy of 9/11 but any major that was incumbent and was doing their job to reassure their citizens would have become golden in the hearts and minds of the people. People need to designate their heros at such times to try and cope with the devastation.

I think if he got elected president people would start to remember why they didn't like him in the first place.

actually, Juliani was credited with cleaning up the streets of NYC, making the whole 42nd st./broadway area go from Pimp and Prostitute central to it's current Metropolitan version of Disney Land.

You ignore Giuliani's most significant achievements, which drastically improved the quality of life for all in New York City.

When Giuliani first became mayor of New York City, there were more than 2,000 murders annually.

On Giuliani's watch, overall violent crime was cut in half and the murder rate went down a stunning 70 percent.

Numbers don't lie.

Crime numbers were reduced all over the USA. Giuliani just had good timing in when he was Mayor, nothing else. Don't get me wrong, he did a good job, but you can't lay crime reductions at his doorstep.

[Guest]

Opps - my bad - you said the number impacted was similar - not killed.

But weren't many thousands displaced and can't return?

Many don't want to come back even though they can start moving back now.

Bear in mind that no one really knows how many people were displaced. When the US government started giving out free 2000 dollar credit cards to anyone that claimed they were from LA, the population of LA grew exponetially. In fact many dead people miraculously came back to life and prison inmates (or their social security numbers anyway) popped up in hotels all around the country with charges for porn channels and champagne on the bills.

[jojo22]

So what's the strategy here - villify the community so it does not matter?

[Guest]

Hmmm, wasn't Guliani an unpopular Major of New York until he lucked out by happening to be the incumbent major at the time of the 9/11 attack and all of a sudden he was a hero? I don't mean to imply that there was anything lucky about the tragedy of 9/11 but any major that was incumbent and was doing their job to reassure their citizens would have become golden in the hearts and minds of the people. People need to designate their heros at such times to try and cope with the devastation.

I think if he got elected president people would start to remember why they didn't like him in the first place.

actually, Juliani was credited with cleaning up the streets of NYC, making the whole 42nd st./broadway area go from Pimp and Prostitute central to it's current Metropolitan version of Disney Land.

You ignore Giuliani's most significant achievements, which drastically improved the quality of life for all in New York City.

When Giuliani first became mayor of New York City, there were more than 2,000 murders annually.

On Giuliani's watch, overall violent crime was cut in half and the murder rate went down a stunning 70 percent.

Numbers don't lie.

Crime numbers were reduced all over the USA. Giuliani just had good timing in when he was Mayor, nothing else. Don't get me wrong, he did a good job, but you can't lay crime reductions at his doorstep.

Giuliani instituted the then-controversial "Broken Windows" theory of crime prevention, which made all the difference.

"Crime numbers were reduced all over the USA" in part because they were so significantly reduced in New York City, which had the most crime in the country at the time Giuliani took office.

Giuliani was also responsible for a major economic turnaround in New York City under his watch.

Hillary Clinton has never held an executive office, has never balanced a budget and has never had to make decisions for which she would be solely responsible.

[Guest]

Giuliani instituted the then-controversial "Broken Windows" theory of crime prevention, which made all the difference.

"Crime numbers were reduced all over the USA" in part because they were so significantly reduced in New York City, which had the most crime in the country at the time Giuliani took office.

Giuliani was also responsible for a major economic turnaround in New York City under his watch.

Hillary Clinton has never held an executive office, has never balanced a budget and has never had to make decisions for which she would be solely responsible.

Trivial sound-bite solutions to explain long term chaotic trends. He could just as well have put a pointy hat on and waved a magic wand, exept of course it wouldn't look good on TV.

In the city I grew up in they made these wonderful projects for poor people. Trees and bushes and a maintence crew to keep it clean and security to keep the residents safe. It was the prettiest drug bazaar the government ever paid for. It was also ruined in just about two years with almost half the apartments unlivable.

Fixing windows looks good, but it doesn't stop the trends.

Politicians don't have anything to do with the economy either, particularly in NY where the economy reacts to world wide trends.

Politicans do best when they do nothing, or provide oversight of grossly unfair practices.

[elliott20]

Hmmm, wasn't Guliani an unpopular Major of New York until he lucked out by happening to be the incumbent major at the time of the 9/11 attack and all of a sudden he was a hero? I don't mean to imply that there was anything lucky about the tragedy of 9/11 but any major that was incumbent and was doing their job to reassure their citizens would have become golden in the hearts and minds of the people. People need to designate their heros at such times to try and cope with the devastation.

I think if he got elected president people would start to remember why they didn't like him in the first place.

actually, Juliani was credited with cleaning up the streets of NYC, making the whole 42nd st./broadway area go from Pimp and Prostitute central to it's current Metropolitan version of Disney Land.

You ignore Giuliani's most significant achievements, which drastically improved the quality of life for all in New York City.

When Giuliani first became mayor of New York City, there were more than 2,000 murders annually.

On Giuliani's watch, overall violent crime was cut in half and the murder rate went down a stunning 70 percent.

Numbers don't lie.

Actually, that's what I was trying to say. I just kind of focused on just that little portion because that was the part I got to see the most myself.

I'm not sure if you can actually attribute it to Giuliani or not. I'm just stating what I heard when I was there.

[jojo22]

The concept of broken windows cannot be attributable to Guliani - he just chose to adopt it - and I very much doubt the idea sprung from his own head, but rather was put forward to him by lobbyists, via people in his office, etc.

It was first put forward in 1996 by Kelling and Coles - I remember studying it when doing a degree in Criminology.

If it was successful then the kudos goes to Kelling and Coles - not to Guliani.

However, there seems to be a great deal of debate about just how successful the approach has been.

One of the enduring realities of social policies is that they come in fads - it's suddenly cool to do this new thing - or put money into researching this new concept - and then all of a sudden it's rubbish and thrown out and replaced by something used in the past that people think is new - and thus the cycle repeats all over again.

[SarahGirl]

Women would use nagging as a negotiation tactic.

Women would never look past a slight to their vanity from a foreign leader.

Women would start catty wars over catty disputes.

Given power to rule the world, women would be insufferable.

What little soul women possess would be corrupted absolutely by absolute power.

Most importantly, women would get nothing done.

Not so very different to the current state of affairs then - assumming you are right ?

[jojo22]

Women would use nagging as a negotiation tactic.

Women would never look past a slight to their vanity from a foreign leader.

Women would start catty wars over catty disputes.

Given power to rule the world, women would be insufferable.

What little soul women possess would be corrupted absolutely by absolute power.

Most importantly, women would get nothing done.

Not so very different to the current state of affairs then - assumming you are right ?

OWNED

[Guest]

The concept of broken windows cannot be attributable to Guliani - he just chose to adopt it - and I very much doubt the idea sprung from his own head, but rather was put forward to him by lobbyists, via people in his office, etc.

It was first put forward in 1996 by Kelling and Coles - I remember studying it when doing a degree in Criminology.

If it was successful then the kudos goes to Kelling and Coles - not to Guliani.

However, there seems to be a great deal of debate about just how successful the approach has been.

One of the enduring realities of social policies is that they come in fads - it's suddenly cool to do this new thing - or put money into researching this new concept - and then all of a sudden it's rubbish and thrown out and replaced by something used in the past that people think is new - and thus the cycle repeats all over again.

No S***, Sherlock.

No one has claimed that Giuliani created the "Broken Windows" theory.

It is well-known that "Broken Windows" is the creature of two Harvard criminologists.

But Guiliani had the mettle and wisdom to recognize that it would work in New York City and to adopt it successfully.

[Guest]

By the way, "Broken Windows" has not been "thrown out" in New York City and the murder and violent crime rates have remained at the low levels attained under Giuliani and even decreased more.

[jojo22]

By the way, "Broken Windows" has not been "thrown out" in New York City and the murder and violent crime rates have remained at the low levels attained under Giuliani and even decreased more.

Alright Holmes, don't get your panties in a twist. I never said Broken Windows had been thrown out - I was talking about 'fad' theories and politics more generally. Once Broken Windows was new and the fix all and darling of everything but now there are a whole bunch of articles attacking it - google and you will see. That's the normal backlash process against anything that becomes too 'normative' or gets too much power behind it. People want to justify their existence by debunking such things and putting up their alternatives so they can get the kudos that has gone to others - it's all a big game really - quite depressing when you think about it.

Giuliani is not a man existing in a vacuum, he is a figurehead and I'm sure you've been around the 'working world' block enough times to know that kudos goes to the figurehead but it's usually the plebs in the shadows that make things happen - which is also quite depressing when you think about it.


WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[Guest]

Mayor of New York City is referred to as the second most difficult job in America after President of the United States.

New York is truly a microcosm of the planet, with every ethnicity imaginable in sufficient numbers to have its own neighborhood and subculture.

Each of these ethnic groups is organized and vocal when its interests are threatened.

It's impossible to be an effective Mayor and be well-liked by most people.

Before becoming Mayor, Giuliani was the head federal prosecutor in the Southern District of New York, which covers Manhattan and the Bronx. He is smart and has thick skin.

When he became Mayor, Giuliani proactively fought the mob in every sector of the economy where they had been ensconced for decades. He shut down de facto mob control of the construction trades and ended the mob's monopoly of wholesale seafood by closing down and moving the Fulton Street Fish Market, which enjoyed a virtual monoploy in that business covering the entire state of New York and most of the northeast United States.

Giuliani is a bit over the top in love with himself, but he is unquestionably resourceful, persistent, and fearless.

[jojo22]

And so you think that makes him President material?

[Guest]

And so you think that makes him President material?

It's a better qualification than having a husband that was a President and buying a Senate seat with party donations.