PLEASE, my friends, PLEASE refrain from certain nicks

[Guest]

I'm 49 and I have no problem with it, and I'm trying to concieve. I didn't write that, but, it's no skin off my back.

I don't have psycho fans saying that I conceived "naturally". We ALL know she never conceived anything naturally, including Shiloh.

I'm still trying to get pregant (TTC). I'm not offended. I'm a big girl, and I actually find it funny, because it doesn't hurt me, it hurts LOONS.

And, actually I can't afford IVF at 12k a session, but if I could I would. No big deal. It's Loons in denial.

I wish you so much luck and for everything possible in your TTC journey.

I think I'm more jaded because I hear comments like that all the time from other people. We have been discreet and nobody even knows of our struggles even though it's been 5 years. We couldn't afford IVF either but now we saved and hope to cycle in November. I have brought it up a couple times about stars with family and friends and the consensus is it's unnatural and against God's will. I am much more sensitive to ugly comments and the like. I know my hopeful future child will be conceived in a "petri dish" that is reality. For people to make fun of it is another story why do they do it? It is insensitive that is all it is. A baby is still a miracle no matter what. I hated the infertility comments here 2 years ago just as much as I hate them now. Were you here when they made jokes about children and children with downs?

Oh yeah, I was here. BTW, the Down's thing, there's like tests now, so you can see if your fetus will have it.

I'll tell you, yeah, at FIRST it was hurtful, but wow, just wow, look at Jolie, at 32 she was TTC with IVF! However, that is known to happen to a lot of people in the TTC comm, you know this right? I know someone in her 20's TTC for several years and it's not happeneing.

But actually, I think being here made me IMMUNE to the "barren" comments. They just roll off my back now. I don't think I'm "barren", but having a bit of a problem conceiving. I am pretty sure it will happen, one day even though I'm 49 now.

It's kind of like the c u n t word, I've heard that so much on datalounge, that I'm immune to it and it rolls off my back. Don't worry about your fam/friends. I do understand what you're going through. Just keep up the positive attitude!

You can do the testing however the jury is still out on it. On my TTC board there were women who had m/c because of it. It is very invasive to go in the womb during pregnancy. They can do PGD but that is about another $8,000. They can also detect the sex at that time as well as check for genetic defects.

The barren doesn't bother me so much as the digs at children conceived by IVF. I always have those taunts in my head for some reason when I see it or hear about those against it.

Best of luck to you!

[Guest]

While I agree that it is rude to make fun of people for having difficulty conceiving, I do not think it's wrong to make fun of IVF. Why? Because the world is full of children who, through no fault of their own, are without parents. I think it is cruel, selfish and heartless for people to spend thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant when they could choose to help a child in need and welcome them into their home. People who want children should adopt; there's no shortage of orphans out there.

You obviously have no clue what an adoption costs.

[Guest]

I'm 49 and I have no problem with it, and I'm trying to concieve. I didn't write that, but, it's no skin off my back.

I don't have psycho fans saying that I conceived "naturally". We ALL know she never conceived anything naturally, including Shiloh.

I'm still trying to get pregant (TTC). I'm not offended. I'm a big girl, and I actually find it funny, because it doesn't hurt me, it hurts LOONS.

And, actually I can't afford IVF at 12k a session, but if I could I would. No big deal. It's Loons in denial.

I wish you so much luck and for everything possible in your TTC journey.

I think I'm more jaded because I hear comments like that all the time from other people. We have been discreet and nobody even knows of our struggles even though it's been 5 years. We couldn't afford IVF either but now we saved and hope to cycle in November. I have brought it up a couple times about stars with family and friends and the consensus is it's unnatural and against God's will. I am much more sensitive to ugly comments and the like. I know my hopeful future child will be conceived in a "petri dish" that is reality. For people to make fun of it is another story why do they do it? It is insensitive that is all it is. A baby is still a miracle no matter what. I hated the infertility comments here 2 years ago just as much as I hate them now. Were you here when they made jokes about children and children with downs?

I wasn't here two years ago, but I have been here long enough to know that the loons are quite an insensitive lot!

I hope you can overcome the idea that needing help with fertilization is some sort of stigma. I also hope it works for you!!! You are in my prayers, because you are right. Babies are miracles, no matter how we get them!!!

Personally, I don't have a big problem with the "turkey baster" comments because they are not as offensive as the barren and down's baby wishes expressed by the loons. A woman's worth should NOT be measured by her ability to be a brood mare!!!! Her heart and soul should be the determining factors!!

If the loons are sincere about the things they wish on other women, I think they will have very rough lives when they reach maturity, if they ever do!! They have some extremely warped ideas of what love, marriage, and or relationships are all about and will be disappointed when they are left in the dirt for their strange behavior!

Don't know if I have expressed myself real well here, but I hope you can get my drift.

[Guest]

While I agree that it is rude to make fun of people for having difficulty conceiving, I do not think it's wrong to make fun of IVF. Why? Because the world is full of children who, through no fault of their own, are without parents. I think it is cruel, selfish and heartless for people to spend thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant when they could choose to help a child in need and welcome them into their home. People who want children should adopt; there's no shortage of orphans out there.

You know, I "might" have agreed with you 10 years ago. I don't have a prob making fun of Jolie or Jolie with IVF, but since I'm almost 50, and I do want a child with my husband. That's not wrong.

While you think adoption is the answer, think again. In California, the state okay'ed that adoption.org is not allowed to advertise because a GAY MALE couple sued and said they were discriminitory. So, Californians can't get access to those children. Lovely, eh?

And, an older child might have a lot of issues that people can not deal with. You have to be willing to deal with the issues that come from a lot of these kids.

And, there's also a color problem. Most of the kids in the system are black/brown - while that is fine for SOME people, other people would prefer a child of their own color. It's just preference - and the way people are.

And there are really no white children available in most states.

I actually think a lot more black/brown people should adopt these kids, keep their kids in the culture they are familiar with, but that is not happening, unfortunately.

And finally, maybe one or the other person in the couple does not want to adopt? There's been a lot of nasty court cases where people want their kids back from the adopted parents.

[Guest]

To the OP, and others, how are you guys affording the treatment?

I'm in the USA, and in CA, and trust me, no insurance covers IVF and infertility at all. Are you guys in Europe, or are you selling the farm to get the treatment?

I've researched this alot. CA has limited insurance coverage. I'm in a state where their is no mandate. It sucks so we saved and are using part of our retirement money.

If you haven't check out RESOLVE they have great resources and information and groups you can become involved with in your area.
http://www.resolve.org/site/PageServer?pagename=homepage

Well, if you're on BC or BS (blue cross/blue shield) or any other provider - check ehealthinsurance.com - none of them cover it.

The ONLY place you can get it is at Kaiser - and I will never step foot in Kaiser, ever, and I won't be on any HMO either. I only want a PPO plan, never an HMO.

So you're using your retirment money? Wow. We're saving for a home, and at $12k a pop, honey, I'd rather that go to one of the McMansions on the hill I want, but to each their own - that's my choice of course, and it's just too exp to own a home here, so all of our money goes to saving for a mcmansion. We live in an apt. I assume you live in a less expensive part of the country and prob own your own home and can borrow on the equity in your home.

I heard there is a couple HMO's Blue Cross that cover but again it depends in what state you live in. I have heard United Healthcare covers treatment. I would be pre-existing now and I know from dealingn with Blue Cross they would deny me anyway.

We do have a mortgage and decided to take retirement funds since we don't have enough equity left. The mortgage companies have cracked down and know they lowballed our appraisal.

[Guest]

While I agree that it is rude to make fun of people for having difficulty conceiving, I do not think it's wrong to make fun of IVF. Why? Because the world is full of children who, through no fault of their own, are without parents. I think it is cruel, selfish and heartless for people to spend thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant when they could choose to help a child in need and welcome them into their home. People who want children should adopt; there's no shortage of orphans out there.

You obviously have no clue what an adoption costs.

I've looked into Ark and it's around $20,000 for a child from Russia.

[Guest]

I'm 49 and I have no problem with it, and I'm trying to concieve. I didn't write that, but, it's no skin off my back.

I don't have psycho fans saying that I conceived "naturally". We ALL know she never conceived anything naturally, including Shiloh.

I'm still trying to get pregant (TTC). I'm not offended. I'm a big girl, and I actually find it funny, because it doesn't hurt me, it hurts LOONS.

And, actually I can't afford IVF at 12k a session, but if I could I would. No big deal. It's Loons in denial.

I wish you so much luck and for everything possible in your TTC journey.

I think I'm more jaded because I hear comments like that all the time from other people. We have been discreet and nobody even knows of our struggles even though it's been 5 years. We couldn't afford IVF either but now we saved and hope to cycle in November. I have brought it up a couple times about stars with family and friends and the consensus is it's unnatural and against God's will. I am much more sensitive to ugly comments and the like. I know my hopeful future child will be conceived in a "petri dish" that is reality. For people to make fun of it is another story why do they do it? It is insensitive that is all it is. A baby is still a miracle no matter what. I hated the infertility comments here 2 years ago just as much as I hate them now. Were you here when they made jokes about children and children with downs?

I wasn't here two years ago, but I have been here long enough to know that the loons are quite an insensitive lot!

I hope you can overcome the idea that needing help with fertilization is some sort of stigma. I also hope it works for you!!! You are in my prayers, because you are right. Babies are miracles, no matter how we get them!!!

Personally, I don't have a big problem with the "turkey baster" comments because they are not as offensive as the barren and down's baby wishes expressed by the loons. A woman's worth should NOT be measured by her ability to be a brood mare!!!! Her heart and soul should be the determining factors!!

If the loons are sincere about the things they wish on other women, I think they will have very rough lives when they reach maturity, if they ever do!! They have some extremely warped ideas of what love, marriage, and or relationships are all about and will be disappointed when they are left in the dirt for their strange behavior!

Don't know if I have expressed myself real well here, but I hope you can get my drift.

It is the loons making the baster comments. They are the ones that mainly make fun of infertility. They are either too young to get life or just too stupid.

[Guest]

While I agree that it is rude to make fun of people for having difficulty conceiving, I do not think it's wrong to make fun of IVF. Why? Because the world is full of children who, through no fault of their own, are without parents. I think it is cruel, selfish and heartless for people to spend thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant when they could choose to help a child in need and welcome them into their home. People who want children should adopt; there's no shortage of orphans out there.

You know, I "might" have agreed with you 10 years ago. I don't have a prob making fun of Jolie or Jolie with IVF, but since I'm almost 50, and I do want a child with my husband. That's not wrong.

While you think adoption is the answer, think again. In California, the state okay'ed that adoption.org is not allowed to advertise because a GAY MALE couple sued and said they were discriminitory. So, Californians can't get access to those children. Lovely, eh?

And, an older child might have a lot of issues that people can not deal with. You have to be willing to deal with the issues that come from a lot of these kids.

And, there's also a color problem. Most of the kids in the system are black/brown - while that is fine for SOME people, other people would prefer a child of their own color. It's just preference - and the way people are.

And there are really no white children available in most states.

I actually think a lot more black/brown people should adopt these kids, keep their kids in the culture they are familiar with, but that is not happening, unfortunately.

And finally, maybe one or the other person in the couple does not want to adopt? There's been a lot of nasty court cases where people want their kids back from the adopted parents.

Well said.

Why is it couples needing IVF should be told to forget their dreams of their own biological child and take the children all those fertile people don't want. Are their dreams not as valid as what the go out and adopt poster implies?

[desdemona]

While I agree that it is rude to make fun of people for having difficulty conceiving, I do not think it's wrong to make fun of IVF. Why? Because the world is full of children who, through no fault of their own, are without parents. I think it is cruel, selfish and heartless for people to spend thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant when they could choose to help a child in need and welcome them into their home. People who want children should adopt; there's no shortage of orphans out there.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. I think it's up to the person/couple involved how they want to have a child. I don't think it's selfish of them to want their own child, I think it'd be more selfish for them to adopt a child and never really think of it as theirs - that child could've been adopted by someone else that really could bestow that upon them.
I'm adopted myself, and my brother and his wife can't get pregnant right now. They want to have IVF and to be honest I was hurt that they didn't think an adopted child would be "theirs". But I spoke to my mum about it and she explained that not everybody can take on somebody else's child and really, 100% think of it as theirs. Plus all the trauma that comes with that child because believe me, there aren't many newborn babies that haven't been through crap that need adopting.
Not to mention, as has already been raised in this thread, the sheer difficulty in getting accepted as a prospective adoptive parent, the expense, the restrictions and everything else. It's very easy to point the finger, but it's just not that clear cut.

[Guest]

There are a lot of factors involved in adoption and it's not just calling up a number and writing a check. It can take up to 12 months in most cases from filing to having your adopted child in your arms.

I would LOVE to adopt. It is the money factor. You need the money for the adoption 18-25k USD and then the cost of flying and staying in the country for the court hearings and visiting. It could run 30k USD. I know someone that adopted two children at once because of the time and travel involved. She wanted a child of her own so bad. She couldn't because of severe fibroids.

Do you think people like her appreciate being told she has bought babies or being called barren? Sometimes the loons and antis are hard to distinguish from eachother.

[Guest]

There are a lot of factors involved in adoption and it's not just calling up a number and writing a check. It can take up to 12 months in most cases from filing to having your adopted child in your arms.

I would LOVE to adopt. It is the money factor. You need the money for the adoption 18-25k USD and then the cost of flying and staying in the country for the court hearings and visiting. It could run 30k USD. I know someone that adopted two children at once because of the time and travel involved. She wanted a child of her own so bad. She couldn't because of severe fibroids.

Do you think people like her appreciate being told she has bought babies or being called barren? Sometimes the loons and antis are hard to distinguish from eachother.

Well said.

It is darn expensive. IVF is expensive and adoption is uber expensive. Since their costs are simlar that could be why people are opting for IVF rather than adoption?

[Guest]

While I agree that it is rude to make fun of people for having difficulty conceiving, I do not think it's wrong to make fun of IVF. Why? Because the world is full of children who, through no fault of their own, are without parents. I think it is cruel, selfish and heartless for people to spend thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant when they could choose to help a child in need and welcome them into their home. People who want children should adopt; there's no shortage of orphans out there.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. I think it's up to the person/couple involved how they want to have a child. I don't think it's selfish of them to want their own child, I think it'd be more selfish for them to adopt a child and never really think of it as theirs - that child could've been adopted by someone else that really could bestow that upon them.
I'm adopted myself, and my brother and his wife can't get pregnant right now. They want to have IVF and to be honest I was hurt that they didn't think an adopted child would be "theirs". But I spoke to my mum about it and she explained that not everybody can take on somebody else's child and really, 100% think of it as theirs. Plus all the trauma that comes with that child because believe me, there aren't many newborn babies that haven't been through crap that need adopting.
Not to mention, as has already been raised in this thread, the sheer difficulty in getting accepted as a prospective adoptive parent, the expense, the restrictions and everything else. It's very easy to point the finger, but it's just not that clear cut.

This is very well said. Thank you for posting it.

[Guest]

While I agree that it is rude to make fun of people for having difficulty conceiving, I do not think it's wrong to make fun of IVF. Why? Because the world is full of children who, through no fault of their own, are without parents. I think it is cruel, selfish and heartless for people to spend thousands of dollars trying to get pregnant when they could choose to help a child in need and welcome them into their home. People who want children should adopt; there's no shortage of orphans out there.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. I think it's up to the person/couple involved howthey want to have a child. I don't think it's selfish of them to want their own child, I think it'd be more selfish for them to adopt a child and never really think of it as theirs - that child could've been adopted by someone else that really could bestow that upon them.
I'm adopted myself, and my brother and his wife can't get pregnant right now. They want to have IVF and to be honest I was hurt that they didn't think an adopted child would be "theirs". But I spoke to my mum about it and she explained that not everybody can take on somebody else's child and really, 100% think of it as theirs. Plus all the trauma that comes with that child because believe me, there aren't many newborn babies that haven't been through crap that need adopting.
Not to mention, as has already been raised in this thread, the sheer difficulty in getting accepted as a prospective adoptive parent, the expense, the restrictions and everything else. It's very easy to point the finger, but it's just not that clear cut.

People have been programed to think of "their own" children as biological only. It is bred into us from birth. In the wild, if the head of a harem is displaced, the new head will kill off as many of the newborns and cause pregnant females to abort in order to procreate and populate the "herd" with their own progeny. We as humans, unfortunately, have not evolved as far as we would like to think!!!!!!!!!


Look at the rate of child abuse where the child is either adopted or is the step-child.

I am not trying to bash anyone here, but the stats are way too high to ignore!! Way too often, people are not ready to admit that they carry a prejudice against any child that is not of their own blood. Many times, I don't think they even realize it themselves and would deny it if asked!! I have seen it too many times to ignore the fact that it happens.

Consider the number of children who are with a single parent and then are suddenly placed in the middle of a new relationship. The new "parent" is saddled with responsibilities that they usually haven't considered and are not prepared for. The children are bewildered with the changes and cannot adapt in a second.. the perfect formula for stress and the results are often that the child is the one who ends up hurt or dead!

I'm not trying to say it's intentional, but it happens too often to be swept under the carpet.

We cannot make blanket statements about "just adopt" as a solution for everyone. Many societies don't even recognize females as "heirs", why do we expect that every person in the world can accept "someone else's" child? We all still want our own genetics to be passed along to the next generation, even if it is only in the back of our minds!

Sorry about the essay!!

Rant over!!!!!!!!!

PS: He!!, The loons can't even accept the idea that IVF was used instead of "hot animal sex"!!!!!!

[Guest]

Anyone know how much it is to adopt a USA child in the USA?

Or to adopt a UK child in the UK?

And can a US/Brit couple adopt a child from the UK?

TIA (thanx in advance)

[Black&Bold]

I ask you to please refrain from using nicks like "Petri Dish Babies" and other offensive digs at infertility or IVF. Talking about IVF is NOT BAD but using names like the aforementioned IS.

I for one and know a couple other women here that are either struggling with infertility, gone through treatments or ended up having nothing work and moved on to adoption. It's a big community here and I think you should check your bias against IVF and the like at the door. Yes that includes LOONS too. The comment from a Loon about "as if they would need a turkey baister" was offensive.

The Loons have gone on for years saying Jennifer is barren and old and sterile. They went as far as to call any child of hers a down cow. We are better than that. I'm sure they got their karma for all the bad things and that is why their idols had fertility treatments (the extent I have no clue) and I think we need to be careful what is said as not all of us here are young fertile Gods like the Loons want Angelina Jolie to be. I refuse to say anything about her fertility since it could be my own karma and as of now I haven't had any luck at all. I know if and when Jen has children the Loons will be screaming old eggs and IVF and donors and you get the ideae.

Please refrain from the fertility digs and insults. That is all I ask. Thank you in advance for your respect.

Sorry won't do it anymore. Sometimes in our zeal to goad the loons we forget that these issues may affect others. And good luck.