Manual Vs Automatic

[Guest]

Auto for the win.. I live in the twisty hills and mountains of Scotland, and I would go for auto every time... Every other part of a car is adjusted automatically these days, (just like fly-by-wire fighter jets that cant be flown manually anymore) so why do we need to kid ourselves we're more in control with a manual as cars now are so quiet you can't hear the shifts which you need to use a manual box correctly.... Its really a guy thing, but its fading fast.. Having said that, I left foot brake and, only use a clutch on a manual car when driving slowly..

This is my baby by the way...

[Guest]

so why do we need to kid ourselves we're more in control with a manual as cars now are so quiet you can't hear the shifts which you need to use a manual box correctly....

Obviously written by someone who doesn't know much about how to drive a car. Ever heard of a tachometer?

[minigirl]

yes, clutches (and getting them fitted) will cost you quite a bit, but if you drive properly, a clutch is not something that wears out very often. my car is 17 years old, has done about 180,000 kilometres and still has the original clutch.

yes, well, that might have been so four months ago, but i went for a rather longish drive today and, on the way back, ten minutes from home the clutch started acting up. got home ok but it looks like i'm ringing the mechanic tomorrow morning....

[honbuns]

Personnally I like both. For nice country roads in a sporty car then a manual gearbox is great.

Autoboxes for long journies particularly if they involve the orbital car park that is the M25 can ease the strain considerably.

The economy issue is much less than it used to be and the engines tend to be less thrashed, however the cost of getting an auto box repaired after failure can be very high.

At one time I was lucky enough to have access to two cars one of each and could use whichever suited my mood and or journey, that alas is no longer the case.[/code]

[minigirl]

yes, clutches (and getting them fitted) will cost you quite a bit, but if you drive properly, a clutch is not something that wears out very often. my car is 17 years old, has done about 180,000 kilometres and still has the original clutch.

yes, well, that might have been so four months ago, but i went for a rather longish drive today and, on the way back, ten minutes from home the clutch started acting up. got home ok but it looks like i'm ringing the mechanic tomorrow morning....

got the car back and it turned out to be a relatively minor problem compared to what i was fearing it could have been - the clutch plate itself is fine. thankfully it only set me back just over $200.

[Usquanigo]

Always personal preference, as stated.

But to clear something up, a self professed "guru" (and you always have to watch for those types), claimed that autos have problems in corners.

Simply not true. An auto will not cause a car to swap ends because there is little to no engine braking in D/OD.

That would be like saying that maunals cause brake hop on cars equipped with the Bosch 5.3 ABS system during an EBD event, when the truth is that the driver forgot to engage the clutch.

Also, autos can be forced to shift via throttle control. That "guru" hasn't spent a lot of time driving one.

In drag racing, autos, especially stalled autos, will ALWAYS be faster, all else being equal. They own the first 1/8th.

In auto-X they are often faster as well because you can put it in 3rd, and utilize engine braking, and let the car shift for you, or drop it down to 2nd on your own, and have near instant shifts with no delay or clutch issues.

On a full blown road course, if you have paddle shifters, they still come out on top, because you get gear selection control, but shifts are instant - it's like playing Gran Turismo. And this applys to both the so-called "slush-boxes", and the SMGs.

Of course, the SMG is the pinnacle.

Manauals' real advantage is lighter vehicle weight, and more ability to customize gearing. And this is why SMGs are pretty much the pannacea (and why you see it on F1 cars, Ferraris, Lambos, etc).

I've owned autos and manuals. My toy is an M6, my daily driver is an A4. For me personally, daily drivers will ALWAYS be autos. I live in a hilly, high traffic area. But, despite the technological advantages, there is something fun about rowing through the gears, hence why my toy is an M6.

But if I were racing, I'd use an auto, or better yet, an SMG if I could afford it. (and depending on drag vs auto-x vs road courses/ORR, etc)

[KiltyCol]

I enjoy driving with a manual gear box. I can't imagine that an Auto would be as much fun.

[Greg39]

DSG, Tiptronic and Steptronic can all be as much fun as a true manual,
with the advantage of lazy driving in stop-start queuing traffic. If I could be sure of open road Q-free motoring all the time, I'd stick with a manual, but the reality is rather different.

[FMJ]

DSG, Tiptronic and Steptronic can all be as much fun as a true manual,
with the advantage of lazy driving in stop-start queuing traffic. If I could be sure of open road Q-free motoring all the time, I'd stick with a manual, but the reality is rather different.

Amen bro, ..my own thoughts entirely.

Auto boxes these days are much better and you can shift manually as well as a manual. Ever tried double declutching on an auto? Its mad but it can be done with a bit of practice. Its hard up to the corner and then shove the stick into neutral, rev up, then throw it back into drive for a really smooth downshift. Totally unecessary but fun! Don't forget to brake with the left foot...

The previous post was correct about lack of sound on a modern car.. I mean who looks at a tach. these days when driving briskly?

[Usquanigo]

Revving an engine in neutral and dropping it into drive is known as a neutral drop, and it's very bad for the trans and converter. With an Auto, you put it in D (not OD) and use engine braking and the converter to handle everything.

Lack of sound? You're driving the wrong cars my friend.

Case in point - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6EiNFiLhV0
or - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H87biHnOr2M

[FMJ]

Revving an engine in neutral and dropping it into drive is known as a neutral drop, and it's very bad for the trans and converter. With an Auto, you put it in D (not OD) and use engine braking and the converter to handle everything.

Lack of sound? You're driving the wrong cars my friend.

Case in point - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6EiNFiLhV0
or - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H87biHnOr2M

Suppose your moving at the time you do the drop, that shouldnt stress the trans as much as if your sitting still, should it? I just do that for an bit of fun, but I'd never try it from a standing start.

Regular modern cars can be quite quiet. The MX5 is my point in question, its nice to drive (albeit a bit girly) on the tight twisty bits we have around here, but with a loud exhaust you can hear the changes better especially on the downshifts..

Me? I drive (sorry, wear) an '87 vette with straight s/s pipes, no boxes or cats.. Soundwise it blows away the newer vettes inc. the ZO6 although nowhere near as fast.

[Usquanigo]

It may not be AS bad, but that's just like how getting shot in the leg is not AS bad as being shot in the head - it still hurts. lol

There's really no need for taking it out of gear. If you need to freewheel, slap it up into OD, or if you really need the speed. Most backroads, and all auto-x courses, are tight enough that you don't need more than third. Lift off adds engine braking, if you need more, the brake is there, with a good trans (like a 700R4 or it's successors), it'll downshift and keep you where you need to be. And with playing with the throttle, you can force it to up or downshift. And if you really need further manual control, you can bump the shifter through the gears. But that's really only useful for drag racing.

The only thing better would be a modern successor to the 700R4 (I'm thinking it's the 6L80E, but I can't remember) with some aftermarket paddle shifters hooked up. Then you can get near SMG control and performance, with the caveat of the converter. But a good converter and a tune should keep that thing locked up most of the time too.

And on a tight back road, or auto-x course, I would probably prefer an auto. But on a road course, I would want a manual. More gears, and easier to shift from tight to straight. The dual-clutch SMG is the ideal set up for both, but needlessly expensive and complex - unless you are competing on a very high level were hundreths mean big money.

And with an LS1, there is enough torque, and a dyno-graph that looks like a dead man's EEG, that on tighter sections (or roads) you can drop it into 3rd or 4th and just power through everything with ease.

Um.... kinda got sidetracked there.... lol

C4 huh? Got any pics? I always liked the C4 while most people I know hated it. I definitely prefer the later ones though, with my fave probably being the Gran Sport.

[FMJ]

That was very interesting. My trans is a 700R4 and it seems bullet proof. Just had it serviced with new oil and strainer etc. On the back roads, it seems to quite at home as long as I just leave in in D.

I love the C4, at 30mpg (UK gallons), £220 for insurance, simple maintenance, it rocks! I was tempted by a ZR1, but I'm told the parts are getting difficult to get even from Ecklers these days. Mine has the Z51 option and is just great to drive in all weathers. I'm surprised there aren't more around. It isn't the fastest, but the sound of the L98 just lifts my spirit after a hard day at work.

That's me on the A78 in Ayrshire, and at home, in Skye on my hols, and with some like minded buddies on the Electric Brae in Ayrshire..

pix..

[Usquanigo]

I need a higher res of that last image! lol

Is that a Formy or a T/A behind you? '91 or '92. Never did care too much for the "cat's eye" front end and fold up side skirts. But still, it did have a nice look when done up nice and from the right angles.

A nice red C3 behind that, and I can't tell, but it looks like the curves and hood of a 4th Gen LS1 WS6, can't really see the wing though to tell if it's a Formy or a T/A.

And possibly yet another 1 behind that.

What are you bastards doing with all our cars?!!?!

lol, just joking. :p

Nice driving country too, terrain-wise.

I had an '88 GTA with the L98/700R4 combo. Loved that car. I remember driving it hard through the woods-y backroads around here. So much more grip than my '84 T/A, plus more comfort, better braking, and more power. With better tires and some SFCs, and maybe even some upgraded sways (and an STC) that thing could have been a BEAST.

But, even though the L98 could blow some white smoke from the rear tires even without powerbraking, it left a lot to be desired. Something I learned only after I got an LS1.

Have you done anything to your L98, btw? They made great torque down low, but are notorious for running out of breath fast. But with a lighter, better balanced car, I'm sure it's still a lot of fun.

My LS1 has the T56. I thought about another auto, but decided to get the M6 instead. And I'm really glad I did too. It's lighter, which provides better balance and lower weight, has more ratios, is more customizable, and is just a blast to row through the gears. And with all the TQ I have (had it dyno'd, spun the rollers to the tune of 330lb/ft and 300hp at the wheels), when I'm hammering hte back roads, I don't need to shift. I keep it in 4th, but if I really wanted to go all out I could drop to 3rd and keep it there because I don't tend to rev past 3 grand when I'm doing this (in 4th). But for all but the slowest corners, I don't have to shift, maybe hit the clutch, but that's it. The torque just pulls it through. Once you get a taste of that, you will not go back to auto, trust me.

If I ever get another 3rd Gen, I might toy with the idea of going with a newer auto, even a 5 speed. Then getting the aftermarket paddle shifter set up on it. Could be a fun experiment.

[FMJ]

The black F-body is a '92 with a stock Olds. 305. The C3 is a loverly and rust free 350 coop. There are two more Firebirds, a Formula 400 ragtop WS6. and and earlier one in blue metallic paint, not sure whaT model. In front of me was a white/grey C4 and just out of the pic was my mate Simons ex USMC blazer (M1008?)

Scotland has great driving roads and we just love Detroit iron. I love it when people walk by Porches etc. to check out my vette at the seafront cruises. Thing is that they're all brainwashed around here into believing that US cars are all gas guzzlers and so they spend loads of dosh buying the wrong cars!!

C3's are always sweet, but check the frame for rust. I've seen so many around here looking sweet on top but totally shot underneath.. In my dreams I have a 427 C2 conv. in black cherry candy over Boyd Coddington red, with red leather and ARE wheels..

Cheers!