Language and Immigration

[noodles]

Everyone's welcome but you should se yourself as a American and in public speak english .

Too many multi-culturists and racists in immigrant groups want to change the rules for there own gain . That will only lead to national suicide as we all divide up into our own little tribes .

And where oh where did you find these little pearls of wisdom?

[Topic Of Gossip]

Immigrants will do what they have been doing since time immemorial i.e. if they can still keep and speak in their own language then they will.

It's the same reason why most Australians speak English and not Aborigine, and why most Americans speak English and not Navaho or Sioux.

The original immigrants i.e. British and Irish in this case, quite liked the languages they were using and so continued to use them. Same happened in the West Indies, New Zealand, Canada, India, Hong Kong and many parts of Africa.

Of course if you want to communicate with people of a given country e.g. to find work, use services, get help etc. then it obviously helps if you know the language that most people from that country use to communicate.

But remember most countries are multilingual to some degree e.g. South Africa has 11 official languages so if I decided to emigrate there what should I learn... Afrikaans? English? IsiZulu?

People will learn what language they need to to get by. They always have and they always will.

The language of any country changes over time because of immigration. Always has and always will.

People who are sacrosanct about the language that others should speak should maybe take a look at why they are speaking the particular language that they use. You'll probably find that it's as a result of some form of immigration. I mean the English we speak today actually originates from the Swedish language.

[noodles]

Immigrants will do what they have been doing since time immemorial i.e. if they can still keep and speak in their own language then they will.

It's the same reason why most Australians speak English and not Aborigine, and why most Americans speak English and not Navaho or Sioux.

The original immigrants i.e. British and Irish in this case, quite liked the languages they were using and so continued to use them. Same happened in the West Indies, New Zealand, Canada, India, Hong Kong and many parts of Africa.

Of course if you want to communicate with people of a given country e.g. to find work, use services, get help etc. then it obviously helps if you know the language that most people from that country use to communicate.

But remember most countries are multilingual to some degree e.g. South Africa has 11 official languages so if I decided to emigrate there what should I learn... Afrikaans? English? IsiZulu?

People will learn what language they need to to get by. They always have and they always will.

The language of any country changes over time because of immigration. Always has and always will.

People who are sacrosanct about the language that others should speak should maybe take a look at why they are speaking the particular language that they use. You'll probably find that it's as a result of some form of immigration. I mean the English we speak today actually originates from the Swedish language.

Well said! x

[ILWL]

It's like me saying the Earth is flat. You will tell me until you are blue in the face that it's round. Would you consider yourself to be extreme? I think not. But you would feel like you were banging your head against a brick wall and, I might feel that you are being extreme in your view that the Earth is round. But only because I believe it is flat.

There is absolutely no way - I could have let you get away with such a comment. I am sure you realise the insinuation of such a statement - so state endorsed immigration is a natural event?

Surely whether someone believes the world is flat or round would depend on where you are standing? You belief could be formed by one of two ways - either on the basis of your own physical reality or by taking a leap of faith with other people's affirmations or findings which are not only competent but made in good faith.

Please look at politicians, press and big business - Is there any reason to believe that any of these groups / individuals operate with good faith?

I am assuming here that you have not been to space here and therefore are not seeing the bigger picture with your own eyes - therefore perhaps you should consider how your views are not neccesarily totally your own!

[SM]

I am assuming here that you have not been to space here and therefore are not seeing the bigger picture with your own eyes - therefore perhaps you should consider how your views are not neccesarily totally your own!

I have come to my views entirely off my own back thank-you very much. I deal with people from all over the world in my day to day job. People from Africa, Asia, Iraq and eastern Europe to name but a few of the places. Because of this I think I am qualified to have my point of view.

And guess what? Show someone a little kindness and they will show you a whole load back, especially when 99% of British people are giving them short-shrift due to the colour of their skin or nature of their accent.

[ILWL]

And guess what? Show someone a little kindness and they will show you a whole load back, especially when 99% of British people are giving them short-shrift due to the colour of their skin or nature of their accent.

Tell me something - when you are talking about 99% of British people are you including in this those catagorised (Possibly by you) as being Asian and Black?

Or is it you assume that racism in this country is just a 'white' against everyone else scenario?

Wonder what your story is whether you are working within the government playing the white man with the colonials - or perhaps you are working at a solicitors profiting whilst paying lip service to human rights and race relations. How about working within the health service where those trained within this country are considered not quite up top scratch (Or is it that their pittance is too much).

People from Africa, Asia, Iraq and eastern Europe to name but a few of the places.

Fair enough but a Air Stewardess may deal with people from these places - does not mean to say that they can speak with any conviction on immigration and race relations - Does it?

[SM]

Tell me something - when you are talking about 99% of British people are you including in this those catagorised (Possibly by you) as being Asian and Black?

Or is it you assume that racism in this country is just a 'white' against everyone else scenario?

Oh no, no... British Asians are as racist as the rest of us, from what I can see. HOWEVER, would you not be racist if you had been subject to racism all your life?

Fair enough but a Air Stewardess may deal with people from these places - does not mean to say that they can speak with any conviction on immigration and race relations - Does it?

Eh! It's not about speaking with any sort of conviction. It's about having a little respect for your fellow Earth colleagues. Life is but a moment in time. If you are caught up in hatred and spitefulness, then you are wasting the one precious thing that no money in the world will buy - TIME. Just live and let live for heavens sake.

[ILWL]

Oh no, no... British Asians are as racist as the rest of us, from what I can see. HOWEVER, would you not be racist if you had been subject to racism all your life?

I myself would hope that I am not getting punished for the actions of my 'fellow countryman' at Amiritsar in the days of . / the slave trade (200 years ago) or for the attitudes of Brits 20-30 years ago when faced with these people.

As for what happens today - you would excuse 'their' racism (Despite you still talking us and them) on account of it being due to those scum on benefits - can you not work out that your views are in their own way offensive to good honest people (Who happen to be white) - whilst at the sametime being I would think patronising to a degree to the very people (The ethnic minorities / immigrants) you seek to defend? Forgive me - but I am tempted to think that you do so not so much care about the very real social implications or indeed feel out of the respect for your fellow human collegues (Or is that consumers?) - you think it because your outlook engenders and then enhances that sense of superiority which you have over other people. It is because of this that I believe that you are in your own way little better then a racist!

If you would prefer to have us all inter-breeding and being inward looking, then just look at the bi-product? Chav boys and Idiot White Girls. Good God they are so thick! Try speaking to them - all you get is wot, dunno, wot, dunno. All they do is hang around street corners drinking cider and being tw@ts.

They are so dozy and thick, and the schools are spewing them out as young adults when they don't have any social skills whatsoever, actually the majority cannot even read or write properly. If you would rather stick with our home-grown youth, rather than open your eyes and see a much better bet from outside our shores, then be my guest. But don't say I didn't warn you. Problem is though, what you are advocating is a nation of thick people.

Respect for your human Collegues SM?
Live and let live?

Or are you thinking eugenics here?

[SM]

As for what happens today - you would excuse 'their' racism (Despite you still talking us and them) on account of it being due to those scum on benefits - can you not work out that your views are in their own way offensive to good......SNIP

Sorry you have lost me with that one. I am just trying to be a decent human being and not have 'issues' with other people.

Respect for your human Collegues SM?
Live and let live?

Well Yeah, I see your point. However, If you are born Polish or Asian or Black or Chinese or whatever, you cannot change that fact. If you choose to be a dozy Idiot White Girl or Chav Lad, then it's exactly that - a choice.

I guess we all have our crosses to bear.

[ILWL]

If you are born Polish or Asian or Black or Chinese or whatever, you cannot change that fact. If you choose to be a dozy Idiot White Girl or Chav Lad, then it's exactly that - a choice.

So in a 'free' society the offense is based around the choice (Or is that having one)?

That is assuming that these tags or Labels are generated and endorsed by the groups themselves or whether the term is coined elsewhere (Perhaps for others) to embody a sense of superiority and fear within groups who are perhaps offended by the manners!

Remember Cameroon and hug a hoody (Are these people worse then Chavs?) - oh the ridicule that notion got! Now imagine for a split second what the reaction would have been if he had hugged a black person (At say the Notting Hill carnival) - Whether this could have been for love, expediency or just because it makes a change from kissing babies is not really important - what is perhaps pertinent is the morals and ethics of a society and indeed the path ahead - when we have this situation where it is almost (Perhaps) compulsory to demonise people on the basis of say their weight and social status whilst saying 'but oh no - don't do it on the basis of race!

The Roman . were quite inclusive in who they let rule and who got to be slaves - they themselves didn't make the distinction on the basis of race or tribe - however there still was shall we say a whiff of tyranny in throwing christians to the lions and let us not forget they still was slavery!

I'm sorry but where you have a 'Civilisation' which says don't be Racist whilst encouraging and tolerating other branches of prejudice (Masked by a Crusading Zeal) then you have to worry about what will develop. Some of the most dangerous people known to humanity have started out with utopian goals and where have they led?

[JackCity]

My turn

I have no problem with anyone coming into the country loking for wor who doesn't speak English....we have enough Britsh people who can't grasp the Queens English. The problem comes with people with refuse to adapt.

Maybe if people are going to be allowed to claim benefits or be given a NI number etc then they should first be forced to attend English language classes.

[noodles]

My turn

I have no problem with anyone coming into the country loking for wor who doesn't speak English....we have enough Britsh people who can't grasp the Queens English. The problem comes with people with refuse to adapt.

Maybe if people are going to be allowed to claim benefits or be given a NI number etc then they should first be forced to attend English language classes.

Thatd be great and a lot do at the moment. The government in its wisdom however are stopping all such classes this september.

[SM]

My turn

I have no problem with anyone coming into the country loking for wor who doesn't speak English....we have enough Britsh people who can't grasp the Queens English. The problem comes with people with refuse to adapt.

Maybe if people are going to be allowed to claim benefits or be given a NI number etc then they should first be forced to attend English language classes.

But how can people adapt when us British people don't allow them to integrate into our society?

There is nothing to fear from Slovakians or Polish people. They are just like you and me. Same with Asian people, or had people not noticed.

Try talking to these people and you will find them very welcoming and easy-going. Which is more than I can say for our home-grown youth who sit on street corners or outside local shops in large groups, drinking cider and generally being a nuisance.

I think sometimes, that we as a nation need to look in the mirror and question our Little Englander attitudes. The World is a much bigger place and with borders opening up, that big place is getting smaller, if that makes sense...?

[SM]

If you are born Polish or Asian or Black or Chinese or whatever, you cannot change that fact. If you choose to be a dozy Idiot White Girl or Chav Lad, then it's exactly that - a choice.

So in a 'free' society the offense is based around the choice (Or is that having one)?

That is assuming that these tags or Labels are generated and endorsed by the groups themselves or whether the term is coined elsewhere (Perhaps for others) to embody a sense of superiority and fear within groups who are perhaps offended by the manners!

I have big issues with the way the UK has let down a generation. The lads and girls are 'forced' into this group/gang culture because the Government have totally let them down. They don't understand that 'nothing to do' is exactly the sort of thing that will lead to trouble. But them building youth centres and making them hip and trendy costs money, so what does one expect. Yet another problem brushed under the carpet but a bloody big sting in the tail when it comes back to bite..

Remember Cameroon and hug a hoody (Are these people worse then Chavs?) - oh the ridicule that notion got! Now imagine for a split second what the reaction would have been if he had hugged a black person (At say the Notting Hill carnival) - Whether this could have been for love, expediency or just because it makes a change from kissing babies is not really important - what is perhaps pertinent is the morals and ethics of a society and indeed the path ahead - when we have this situation where it is almost (Perhaps) compulsory to demonise people on the basis of say their weight and social status whilst saying 'but oh no - don't do it on the basis of race!

I think the race issue is there because it is so obvious. People do discriminate against weight, social status, the way a person dresses or looks, sex, sexuality, how people talk, etc, etc... The list is endless and I guess we all do it to a greater or lesser extent. On the other hand, we have a halo effect on people who we think fit into our perception of the correct mould. The question is though, how many opportunities to meet and explore some really interesting people are lost, because we never get past those initial prejudices?

The Roman . were quite inclusive in who they let rule and who got to be slaves - they themselves didn't make the distinction on the basis of race or tribe - however there still was shall we say a whiff of tyranny in throwing christians to the lions and let us not forget they still was slavery!

I don't really understand the point that you are trying to make. Sorry.

I'm sorry but where you have a 'Civilisation' which says don't be Racist whilst encouraging and tolerating other branches of prejudice (Masked by a Crusading Zeal) then you have to worry about what will develop. Some of the most dangerous people known to humanity have started out with utopian goals and where have they led?

But this is exactly that I am not trying to preach. I am saying live and let live. I am not interested in keeping the buggers out and trying to develop a super-race of Little-Englanders. I am saying that we need to embrace change, partly because change happens and we cannot do anything about this fact in life, and secondly, because life is too short to be caught up in hatred and spitefulness. Small world views and a let-down youth have got us to where we are. It's time for change.

[Jane_]

People who are sacrosanct about the language that others should speak should maybe take a look at why they are speaking the particular language that they use. You'll probably find that it's as a result of some form of immigration. I mean the English we speak today actually originates from the Swedish language.

Thats rubbish. English developed from the Germanic derivative spoken by Angles and Saxons. When William the Conquerer invaded in 1066 French became the dominant language. From there it became influenced by Latin - Chaucer was very "french" in his use of language - but compare that to Milton with his latinate influences. Every language develops and changes and if you look at the etymology of words you can see where the roots are.