why are men all bastards??

[firehawk]

sure, but she is 30 and has 2 kids - has never loved anyone at all ever, only me - trust me on that. but still why be scared off and not talk about it? Just totally wrong on many levels, and she never even loved the guy she had kids with....had the last one to save the relationship, well that never worked out!

[SM]

sure, but she is 30 and has 2 kids - has never loved anyone at all ever, only me - trust me on that. but still why be scared off and not talk about it? Just totally wrong on many levels, and she never even loved the guy she had kids with....had the last one to save the relationship, well that never worked out!

Elastoplast kids never do work out. There are some real problems with this lady. I would not want to start suggesting things without more info, but she has an issue with linking sex and intimacy/love, or so it might seem.

[firehawk]

yeh I know. But am deeply hurt by everything she has done and said and the way she did it and what not. More than happy to "talk about it" if you like and have the time, if so, please PM me your msn address (I wont be able to reply because of my post count)....just i guess would help in discussing things.

my apologise for the hijacking/slight off sight in the original topic

[ZiaAries]

before i was thinking alot to do with logic, evolution, why is it so bad to be selfish ..etc
now the more human side to this (feelings, compassion, empathy ..etc) is starting to conflict with it, like two battles going on inside my head ...to the point now i don't know what to think, that and my head now hurts.

i think i will try to stop thinking about for the rest of today

don't know if my opinion will end up shifting though ..at the moment i'd say my opinion is still closer to bouncy's opinion and my original stance that your stance

I think we're all human beings before we are anything else that we think defines us as individuals and therefore we should first of all cultivate the humanity in us, which is empathy, compassion, love...
Is nationality, race, religion etc. more important than our quality as human beings? There's plenty of people who think it is...I can't however...
Why would it be good to be selfish?

Compassion, Yes.

The problem I have with the arguments about society or what's natural or not is that we are human. We are NOT animals. We are responsible for our own actions and it's time to stop blaming things on the world or anyone else. If we don't or can't control ourselves...then that person is challenged in many ways. We have a choice in life as to the kind of person we are to be. To cheat is to lie and to deceive and hurt another. It is not my nature to do that nor do I choose to live that life. I have a conscience that society doesn't have to deal with, only I have to do that.

Cristy my friend, I enjoy your kind words. The only disagreement is the "murderers" part. Taking a life or stealing a life is worst than cheating. Cheating can be forgiven and healed but a life taken is final and there is no turning back to change that. I have a feeling that you didn't really mean that part.

I too know the feeling of having my heart ripped out by deception too. I forgave that person. I have learned that healing comes from forgiveness and letting go of the weight that imprisons us.

[cristy]

Cristy my friend, I enjoy your kind words. The only disagreement is the "murderers" part. Taking a life or stealing a life is worst than cheating. Cheating can be forgiven and healed but a life taken is final and there is no turning back to change that. I have a feeling that you didn't really mean that part.

This is just like when people say emmotional cheating is worse than physical cheating. When someone cheats they can kill a person's soul, good spirit and therefore it's still a murder. Who is to say that living without a soul is better than not living at all? Some may say it is, and some may not. It depends on how deep we feel the world around us and ourselves. Is the physical more important than the spiritual or the other way around? One thing that seems to make it better is that there's hope for a person's spirit to become nearly as good as it once was while the physical termination of existence is final, irreversible. However, the line between these two states becomes extremely fine when in pain and pain can make them seem the same. That's why so many people commit suicide out of love, but I agree that's a wrong choice.

[ZiaAries]

I want to add a disclaimer/exception to my thoughts above . . . there are some people that lean on another excape a toxic relationship which was over before they strayed to another. Usually, in these relationships, cheating probably doesn't come as a suprise to the other.

I have more problems with the act of deception than I do with a moment of weekness that we chose to give into.

[ZiaAries]

Cristy my friend, I enjoy your kind words. The only disagreement is the "murderers" part. Taking a life or stealing a life is worst than cheating. Cheating can be forgiven and healed but a life taken is final and there is no turning back to change that. I have a feeling that you didn't really mean that part.

This is just like when people say emmotional cheating is worse than physical cheating. When someone cheats they can kill a person's soul, good spirit and therefore it's still a murder. Who is to say that living without a soul is better than not living at all? Some may say it is, and some may not. It depends on how deep we feel the world around us and ourselves. Is the physical more important than the spiritual or the other way around? One thing that seems to make it better is that there's hope for a person's spirit to become nearly as good as it once was while the physical termination of existence is final, irreversible. However, the line between these two states becomes extremely fine when in pain and pain can make them seem the same. That's why so many people commit suicide out of love, but I agree that's a wrong choice.

I understand what you are meaning. The sprit can heal. This is a state that is temporary. Death is final. Again, it's all about choice. If a person gives their soul to another or puts themselves in such a fragil state, I'm not sure I see that as a healthy mental condition.

[SM]

I want to add a disclaimer/exception to my thoughts above . . . there are some people that lean on another to escape a toxic relationship which was over before they strayed to another. Usually, in these relationships, cheating probably doesn't come as a surprise to the other.

I have more problems with the act of deception than I do with a moment of weakness that we chose to give into.

Oh but it is such a shocker to the other. It means they failed to be able to satisfy the basic sexual needs of their partner. It's easy to point the finger of blame at things like he didn't do any housework or she was a selfish cow, but he/she was shite in bed is a killer for anyone.

[cristy]

I understand what you are meaning. The sprit can heal. This is a state that is temporary. Death is final. Again, it's all about choice. If a person gives their soul to another or puts themselves in such a fragil state, I'm not sure I see that as a healthy mental condition.

I don't think it's healthy either but it happens and in a way it's part of love but at a higher intensity.

[cristy]

but he/she was shite in bed is a killer for anyone.

I can't say I feel that...if someone made me feel I was bad in bed I would just think they didn't love me enough to work this problem out together, which I wouldn't feel quilty about. Sex isn't a measure of ourselves, it's only a measure of how well we learned to do some things, like cooking for example. If you can't cook good you won't eat good, but that's why there are cook books for and practice makes perfect.

[SM]

but he/she was shite in bed is a killer for anyone.

I can't say I feel that...if someone made me feel I was bad in bed I would just think they didn't love me enough to work this problem out together, which I wouldn't feel quilty about. Sex isn't a measure of ourselves, it's only a measure of how well we learned to do some things, like cooking for example. If you can't cook good you won't eat good, but that's why there are cook books for and practice makes perfect.

It must be nice to be able to pigeon-hole things so neatly. Unfortunately most of us cannot do this. Life becomes a huge blur of bad and badder, good and gooder. It all gets mixed up and confused.

[cristy]

It must be nice to be able to pigeon-hole things so neatly. Unfortunately most of us cannot do this. Life becomes a huge blur of bad and badder, good and gooder. It all gets mixed up and confused.

I don't understand the feeling, simply because I never felt like it all gets mixed up and confused. Sorry.

[Mr A]

If I got cheated on, yeah I be pissed, who wouldn't ...but i don't think i'd actually be that "hurt" though if it were just sex. I think i would be angry ..but not really all that "hurt"...

LOL, oh boy, oh boy...

It hurts like nothing else. It hurts so bad it rips you apart. Totally destroys everything you put your faith in. Everything. Happiness, future, money, security, love, respect. There is nothing that is left to salvage - it destroys every facet of your life.

And guess what, if you are in some bombed out relationship and it happens, it is even worse because you punish yourself so much for not being able to have the warmth, the love, and the intimacy that your partner has found elsewhere. All the blame and all the hurt comes back and smacks you in your face. Confirming what a crap lover you are, such a total failure that you couldn't even satisfy your partner's sexual needs. That is the biggest kick in the teeth ever.

Now try telling me that you wouldn't be all that hurt.

...often i find it difficult to really relate to a situation or truely apprcreciate the gravity of the different emotions a person might be feeling until i actually get into a similar experience and experience them for myself.


I try to put myself in other people's shoes and that helps ..and as i've got older i've got better at appreciating how one might feel and be effected ...but in some cases if i cannot directly relate i find it difficult to appreciate just how one might be feeling or effected.

cheating possibly i think might be one of those area's. never been cheated on, never cheated on anyone ...never experienced any of real effects of it either as parents/uncle's/aunts etc never cheated on each other.

people that know me well actually conisder quite a warm kind person.
on occasion however i have been told i appear to show little emotion. when i start mulling over thoughts/issues that come into my head i tend to come at it from a more logical/strategic perspective then most people ..it's just the way my mind works, i consider it to be a strength of mine ...but at the same time I believe it's a weakness. as a result of coming at things from more of a logical perspective i tend lack emotion at times or not be able to really see what the other person is feeling unless i've experienced it for myself.

so at the moment, to be honest i still don't think i'd be all that hurt if i got cheated on ...but knowing what i'm like there is a good chance i could be wrong about that....

[pinkfly]

maybe you need a nice guy...

http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=166215

[david_david]

Interesting to read all those comments and arguments about cheating. Most people seem to see things rather black-and-white as far as cheating is concerned.

My wife and I have been married for 20 yrs and have a wonderful relationship, still love each other very much and sex is great (in fact getting better all the time). Although I’ve had girlfriends before, I have never been with another woman since marriage. Now that things have settled, children grown up and I (we) feel good about the things in our life, I have started developing all sorts of desires. In fact we both feel much more liberated in our physical and emotional relationship. I feel like flirting, I want to try things like threesomes and foursomes, etc. My wife and I often talk about these things and have found that I am significantly less likely to feel jealous than she is. I think that, given certain conditions are met, I would be ok to let her flirt (and more!) with other men or women. In that sense, she doesn’t have to cheat on me, if she wants to satisfy her curiosity or try something new with or without me. Believe me, I still love her more than anything in the world, find my life with her very fulfilling and don’t want to be without her, ever! On the other hand, she is not comfortable with me doing the same. Not alone anyway. In that sense, it’s a bit unfair.. I can only do what she is allowed to do, if I do it secretly, ie by cheating on her. I don’t want to cheat on her and so I am not doing anything other than chatting to people in forums, etc. But the curiosity and the desires remain …so, in my view to help me and help herself (avoid being cheated) she should trust me that a flirt or something more physical every now and then would not spell the end of our relationship and marriage. In a way cheating only happens when there isn’t enough trust and honesty between the partners and when people feel insecure, possessive and defensive in their relationships. Hope I have not offended anyone with my opinion.