Knife Crime in UK - Solution?

[john12]

Simple,

Caught carrying a knife - 10 years, no parole;
Use knife injuring other - 20 years, no parole;
Use knife killing other - Life, no parole and life meaning life. You only get out in a coffin.

And not in one of these soft jails where they have TV's, Playstations, pool tables and 3 course meals. Why not create a prison on some remote island where its freezing cold and the cells are basic bed, loo and sink.

The solitary cell in 'Papillion' would be a good starting point.

Agree or disagree?

[DanMc]

Will they get to read your copy of the Daily Mail when you've finished with it?

[john12]

Nah, they'll have to be satisfied with the Telegraph.

They could get a treat and read Richard Littlejohn on a Tuesday and Friday.

[Guest]

kin L sleepy2 - thats Liverpool all but empty then. Sure if u did some ancestry checking u'll find a touch of the tar brush in u too.

[ccd]

We certainly need to get rather more medieval when it comes to things like knives. We've tried touchy feely and it hasn't worked so now I think anyone caught with a knife needs to be locked up. Trouble is, that's quite expensive - are we prepared to shoulder the burdon of building new jails etc?

[Guest]

build the jails

zero tolerance

time given served in full & hard labour - no perks as of now.

They won't reoffend after that

[honbuns]

Only 1 major problem and that is the cost, I seem to remember seeing a quote that it costs something like £70k per year to keep someone in prison, that is not taking into account the cost of building the thousands of extra spaces that would be required.

[Guest]

cost wud be considerably reduced if they did a real job & prison charged for it

[Ady6970]

It's my view that people who aren't particular about carrying knives are unlikely to be bothered by the prospect of a year or two in prison. The only real deterrent would be to reintroduce capital punishment - in defiance of Europe if need be - and make the unauthorised possesion and public carrying of an offensive weapon, a capital offence.

[Ming]

It's my view that people who aren't particular about carrying knives are unlikely to be bothered by the prospect of a year or two in prison. The only real deterrent would be to reintroduce capital punishment - in defiance of Europe if need be - and make the unauthorised possesion and public carrying of an offensive weapon, a capital offence.

Presumably your enthusiasm for the death penalty would remain undimmed if the person arrested was your child?

I am pleased to say that most civilised countries have done away with such barbarism. I would be interested to know if you have seen the excellent documentary 'Fourteen Days in May' which followed the last two weeks of Edward Earl Johnson, who was sentenced to death and executed in Mississippi in 1997. He was subsequently proved innocent of the crimes for which he had been convicted. Do watch it if you can, and having seen it, see if your appetite for the death penalty is quite as sharp.

[Ady6970]

I think you misread my "enthusiasm" for the death penalty a little. It's certainly true that if I were Home Secretary I would take an active interest in reinstating it for murder. However the point I was making in relation to knives was that somebody who isn't particular about carrying a weapon in public is unlikely to be troubled by the prospect of a year or two in prison. If knives are to be taken off the streets - and we've had far too many young lives destroyed in this country (the UK) this year alone as a result of knife crime - something rather more drastic than prison is needed as a punishment. Maybe the realistic solution would be some kind of enforced military training in boot camps - but that's only a suggestion.

[Ming]

I think you misread my "enthusiasm" for the death penalty a little. It's certainly true that if I were Home Secretary I would take an active interest in reinstating it for murder. However the point I was making in relation to knives was that somebody who isn't particular about carrying a weapon in public is unlikely to be troubled by the prospect of a year or two in prison. If knives are to be taken off the streets - and we've had far too many young lives destroyed in this country (the UK) this year alone as a result of knife crime - something rather more drastic than prison is needed as a punishment. Maybe the realistic solution would be some kind of enforced military training in boot camps - but that's only a suggestion.

One of the things that I've heard most often, particularly from the generation that did national service, was a fervent wish to bring it back. I heartily disagree. The last thing the military wants, is a bunch of delinquents foisted upon it. Times have changed. We have professional armed forces now, not knob-heads with guns. All that happens when you provide military training to thugs is you just end up with fitter, more dangerous thugs.

[Ady6970]

Ming, you won't be surprised to learn that I disagree. Boot camps run by ex army officers would do a great deal to prevent and deter offending that ordinary modern prisons can't. Firstly they would provide a tough regime which casual offenders wouldn't want to experience again in a hurry. Secondly they would provide a framework within which offenders had to experience the realities of teamwork and hopefully gain both self respect and respect for others. Finally, those who completed their boot camp sentences satisfactorily could be given the opportunity to train for the regular armed services if they so wished, thereby giving something back to their country and having the chance to earn some decent money into the bargain.

[Ming]

Ming, you won't be surprised to learn that I disagree. Boot camps run by ex army officers would do a great deal to prevent and deter offending that ordinary modern prisons can't. Firstly they would provide a tough regime which casual offenders wouldn't want to experience again in a hurry. Secondly they would provide a framework within which offenders had to experience the realities of teamwork and hopefully gain both self respect and respect for others. Finally, those who completed their boot camp sentences satisfactorily could be given the opportunity to train for the regular armed services if they so wished, thereby giving something back to their country and having the chance to earn some decent money into the bargain.

I appreciate your view. But there are limits to how harshly people can be treated. The EU Human Rights legislation is not there for decoration. To deprive someone of their liberty does not exempt the authorities from the statutory duty to comply with the law. Most of my family have been military, for the last three generations. The military don't want them. By all means use them for an extended community service, but the whole concept of using any form of military regime as a punishment is a non starter.

[Ady6970]

Thanks Ming. I think there are a couple of points that need to be borne in mind though. The vast majority of offenders are under thirty and in many cases haven't experienced proper discipline or boundaries either at home or at school, simply because the good old fashioned discipline which kept people largely on the straight and narrow in the past became unfashionable in the Seventies and much of it's been curtailed by law since. Consequently a generation has grown up without proper boundaries or consequences to fear if those boundaries are crossed. Result, overcrowded prisons which can't do their job properly. Boot camps would give offenders a taste of the real discipline they've not had earlier on in life and teach them respect not only for other people but for themselves. Military training could be combined with hard, productive work and an element of compulsory schooling - including Maths on a Monday morning.