UK speed camera turnaround

[Guest]

Did you know that the UK govt. has pulled all the revenue that local councils make from speed cameras back to Westminster? Instead they now get a road safety grant to be used specifically for that purpose. Apparently the govt. is trying to distance itself from the attitude that all the cameras do is provide revenue first and safety second.

Swindon, (who freely admit that its a form of local taxation and is very lucrative..) apparently, is the first one to rethink the camera thing, after all if the cameras aren't providing income for the council, there's no point in having them or spending money maintaining them.

[Usquanigo]

Gotta love politics.

That's the whole point behind the majority of traffic laws - revenue.

Here in the states we now have mandatory seatbelt laws. They have a campaign called "click it or ticket", and unlike in the past, where they could add failure to wear a seat belt to a ticket for something else, now they can stop you JUST for that. They CLAIM it's for our safety.... except, motorcyclists don't have to wear helmets. How am I in more danger when I am in a stable, 4 wheeled platform with a steel cage all around me? Secondly, I just took a long bus trip cross country, busses don't have seatbelts and allow passengers to walk the aisle when they need to use the toilet or get something out of their bag in the overhead compartment.

Then there is the whole speed limit issue. One local road is EASLIY driven at 50 to 60 mph, even in a loose, hard to control SUV with severe body roll. In a real car (or road truck), 65 to 70 is perfectly reasonable. Yet the speed limit is 45mph. Ok, might not seem like much, but.... anotoher local road is super narrow, winding, and downright treacherous, it TOO has a speed limit of 45mph. And that second road is a thrill even in a sports car at that speed. The thought of 2 over-sized SUVs going that fast in opposite directions on it is a nightmare. The difference? The first road is easy to patrol, the second is not, so the first one has a speed FAR too low just so they can bust you and make money to pay for themselves (the cops, that is).

It's disgusting.

[Moira Mac]

Did you know that the UK govt. has pulled all the revenue that local councils make from speed cameras back to Westminster? Instead they now get a road safety grant to be used specifically for that purpose. Apparently the govt. is trying to distance itself from the attitude that all the cameras do is provide revenue first and safety second.

Swindon, (who freely admit that its a form of local taxation and is very lucrative..) apparently, is the first one to rethink the camera thing, after all if the cameras aren't providing income for the council, there's no point in having them or spending money maintaining them.

The Swindon case has been brought about because the mayor, or whoever sanctioned the removal, has been convicted for speeding in the past. He is getting his own revenge on his arrogance!

Speed cameras don't provide revenue, speeding drivers do.

Some people complain roads have too low a speed limit without taking into consideration things like the volume of traffic a road has at times, or that if it is on approach to a residential area, even on a motorway, the speed limit lowers.

[FMJ]

Cheers Moira, ..me again!

The camera thing excited the councils no end at first, as this was the first time they actually were able to raise revenue for themselves. It was a form of local taxation brought about on the back of 'safety'

Now they find, and especially in Ayrshire, that the cameras cost way too much to run and insider knowledge referring to the so-called A77 26mile speed trap, using SPECS cameras, indicate that the overhead cameras are turned off! I drive the A77 routinely and if traffic conditions allow I just drive at whatever speed suits me, never once been ticketed.

If the cameras are on, why is there also the occasional patrol car/unmarked motorcycle/mobile camera.

I'm all for road safety, but as these speed cameras are easily defeated these days, they've definately had their day. All that matters these days is £sd!

Thank God for the virgin A78!!

[kinghelfer]

...... Speed camera use illegal, says Robbie the Pict
Claim that no proper authorisation as each type of device requires statutory instrument
News, 6 July 2006


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The man who successfully led the campaign to scrap the Skye Bridge tolling scheme yesterday claimed to have established a legal argument against speed cameras.

Robbie the Pict claims that under the Road Traffic Act 1991, each particular type of device such as a speed camera or radar has to be authorised by statutory instrument before evidence based on its use is admissable in court. The order must, he said, have a specific description of the device being used and be laid before Parliament.

Having checked with the UK's statutory instrument registrar at the Cabinet Office, Mr Pict said he had discovered that statutory instruments had not been made for the particular monitoring equipment in use. He claimed that his argument could lead to the Home Office being found liable to pay millions of pounds in compensation to affected drivers.

A spokesperson for the Department for Transport said speed cameras had been shown to save lives and that the department was prepared to answer any queries raised by Mr Pict.............

[Moira Mac]

Cheers Moira, ..me again!

The camera thing excited the councils no end at first, as this was the first time they actually were able to raise revenue for themselves. It was a form of local taxation brought about on the back of 'safety'

Now they find, and especially in Ayrshire, that the cameras cost way too much to run and insider knowledge referring to the so-called A77 26mile speed trap, using SPECS cameras, indicate that the overhead cameras are turned off! I drive the A77 routinely and if traffic conditions allow I just drive at whatever speed suits me, never once been ticketed.

If the cameras are on, why is there also the occasional patrol car/unmarked motorcycle/mobile camera.

I'm all for road safety, but as these speed cameras are easily defeated these days, they've definately had their day. All that matters these days is £sd!

Thank God for the virgin A78!!

Speed camera's can't respond when people need help, can't use ANPR devices etc. My sister Gillian often uses the A / M 77 as part of her work, she is a police officer. A visible presence in the shape of a battenburg style paint job on her car works wonders. She has often helped pull people from wreckages that once claimed 'but I know how to drive' etc.

She is of the opinion that the same people who wish to drive as fast as they want, are the same ones that don't have to scrape body parts off the roads when tyres blow or drivers losing control when something hits the windscreen. It is a rarity, but statistics don't bring comfort to the bereaved.

I have one sister that responds to accidents first hand, another who helps them get better if they survive, Laura is a nurse! They have both seen sights I don't even want to think about.

[FMJ]

Moira,

..all coppers have a breathtaking disregard for the general publics driving ability. Their pomposity that no-one drives as good as they do regardless of the amount of experience, and/or training they have had is all too evident. Traffic laws are always interpreted in their own way, often arguing among themselves when trying to decide whether a driver has infringed on something. Don't forget, police officers cause as much carnage as anyone on the roads these days, with their arrogance that the colours and the uniform makes them invulnerable. I also know serving police officers, and am well aware of their ways.

I'm all for road safety, but cameras aren't the way to do it, more police presence is!!! The SPECS cameras on the A77 cause their own hazards as people are now watching the speedo too much and to hell with whats around you. Any serving traffic officer would agree with that. Sometimes speed IS a safer option to clear yourself away from those who would kill you by their lack of regard or awareness of what around them...

This pic sums it up nicely... Check that tailpipe!!

[Usquanigo]

..all coppers have a breathtaking disregard for the general publics driving ability. Their pomposity that no-one drives as good as they do regardless of the amount of experience, and/or training they have had is all too evident. Traffic laws are always interpreted in their own way, often arguing among themselves when trying to decide whether a driver has infringed on something. Don't forget, police officers cause as much carnage as anyone on the roads these days, with their arrogance that the colours and the uniform makes them invulnerable. I also know serving police officers, and am well aware of their ways.

Quoted for truth.

Autobahns have less accidents than we (the US) do. Guess speed isn't really the problem afterall. This is reinforced by ass-car (NASCAR, hate that crap, but it serves my point here) - when they started adding restrictor plates and slowing the cars down, the field bunched up and accidents became MUCH worse as a result.

Roads that have forever been just fine at 1 speed, and still are fine, suddenly have speeds dropped, and not well marked, and changed at places where cops can hide. Stop signs and traffic lights go up willy-nilly all over the damned place, "just because".

Seat belt laws require people, in stable, 4 wheeled vehicles, with a surrounding steel cage and 15 airbags, to put on a seat belt. But they still allow people to ride unstable 2 wheel exposed powered bicycles, or to be packed in like friggan sardines in a bus while being allowed to still stand up and wander around.

Yeah... saftey. And I S*** sold gold.

It's all about revenue. This is why cops go on the ticket writing hunt at the end of the month - they have a quota.

And nevermind the other parts that FMJ mentioned - that badge makes them above the law and gives them unlimited power. They could murder you (at least here) and get away with it, so long as it wasn't caught on camera. Hell, the Rodney King beating WAS caught on camera, and those cops STILL got acquitted in the first trial.

"Protect and serve"? Maybe each other, but not us. Rodney King. Waco, Ruby Ridge (though they were FBI, not police, still basically the same thing).... in Deleware 1 cop responded to a domestic dispute call in a trailer park and shot a sleeping 7 yr old boy in the back. He claimed his accidentally discharged his weapon - in the first place, if his finger was in the trigger guard at all, he was improperly trained and an idiot, in the 2nd place a DA only Glock has a 19 lb trigger pull, you do NOT discharge that "accidentally". Also in Deleware, cops raided a house (don't recall why) and the neighbor was watching from his upstairs window, a cop told the guy to move along (from the other house, and through closed windows), when he didn't, the cop shot him. In LA, a hostage situation involving a baby girl lead to her death when the LA County Sheriffs Office opened fire on the man holding the baby and killed both of them. In NYC, there was a case of an immigrat being arrested and he could not speak english, when he reached for his wallet, 4 cops opened fire and emptied *2* clips into the guy. In the 50s there was a case (can't recall where), of a woman who was being stalked by a psycho ex-b/f, called the cops and they said htey couldn't do anything to help her, when she was attacked, she tried to sue the police and the judge claimed that cops do not have to protect you as an individual and can not be held accountable for what happens to you. Then we have all the uncalled for tasings going on, and the night stick Anal rapings in the questioning rooms.

They sure as HELL aren't protecting us from anything. Not on the roads, and not anywhere else either. Their ONLY presence on the roads is to pay for themselves. That's it.

[Moira Mac]

Moira,

..all coppers have a breathtaking disregard for the general publics driving ability. Their pomposity that no-one drives as good as they do regardless of the amount of experience, and/or training they have had is all too evident. Traffic laws are always interpreted in their own way, often arguing among themselves when trying to decide whether a driver has infringed on something. Don't forget, police officers cause as much carnage as anyone on the roads these days, with their arrogance that the colours and the uniform makes them invulnerable. I also know serving police officers, and am well aware of their ways.

I'm all for road safety, but cameras aren't the way to do it, more police presence is!!! The SPECS cameras on the A77 cause their own hazards as people are now watching the speedo too much and to hell with whats around you. Any serving traffic officer would agree with that. Sometimes speed IS a safer option to clear yourself away from those who would kill you by their lack of regard or awareness of what around them...

This pic sums it up nicely... Check that tailpipe!!

Moira's newly promoted sergeant for a sister here....

I could not believe the the overwhelming arrogance of your first line. Have you met every officer? No, didn't think so! I have colleagues I don't like, but that happens everywhere.

The people who want more police presence than anyone else is, the police! Unless you have a magic wand and produce more officers, and have a way of reducing paperwork and time in general behind computers, we would gladly be out there.

You should only glance at the speedometer now and again unless you have a dodgy right foot. If you can't take your eyes of the speedo, how do you manage to overtake? You need to check all around you first.

Truck drivers often look over their shoulders as mirrors distort distance!

They can do that without causing accidents and they have about 50 feet behind them. I have colleagues who have been rear ended whilst stationary at traffic lights whilst in marked vehicles!

The vast majority of accidents on the 77 are caused by stupidity, very rarely is it the roads fault. It doesn't ask driver's to apply make up, change the CD or radio station, read sat-nav screens instead of looking out the windows, and keep driving so close behind trucks the driver can't see them in the mirrors etc.

I don't patrol the 77 any more, well, not much, I do use it to get to work, and even when in uniform, it was amazing what we let people away with, including travelling at 90mph. I've been tailgated at 70 mph and reported drivers without telling them at that point, but turned up at their doors when possible and asked them if they recognise me from the front!

Since when did police officers cause as much carnage as everyone else?
I've never seen several police cars wrecked on motorways in the one incident. I've had two colleagues killed on the 77 travelling to work, one at Fenwick, one further up by a car that crossed a central reservation. The stereo caused the driver to lose concentration.

Less than a quarter of half of one per cent of police call outs result in accidents involving police vehicles. Most RTC's involving police vehicles are by members of the public who pull out in front of vehicles with a full compliment of lights blazing, but they will try and nip in front or cross over anyway, and badly misjudge the speed and distance.

I could go on, but I'm on a nightshift, with a guaranteed RTC in the mix, my face possibly spat on, and maybe a drunk in a hospital to pull off a nurse being attacked, which once was our sister Laura.

Gillian

[FMJ]

Moira's newly promoted sergeant for a sister here....

Congratulations, ..try not to get lost in the system and actually make a difference before you retire..

I could not believe the the overwhelming arrogance of your first line. Have you met every officer? No, didn't think so! I have colleagues I don't like, but that happens everywhere.

If traffic cops could all sing off the same sheet life would be so much easier. I've had them arguing between themselves as I sit on the kerb several times over whats right and wrong. I'm also a serving Senior Govt. officer, but if I worked like that, peoples lives would be endangered

The people who want more police presence than anyone else is, the police! Unless you have a magic wand and produce more officers, and have a way of reducing paperwork and time in general behind computers, we would gladly be out there.

..again, try to make a difference, and not just mark time until you retire!

You should only glance at the speedometer now and again unless you have a dodgy right foot. If you can't take your eyes of the speedo, how do you manage to overtake? You need to check all around you first.

I have an Advanced Driving Credential and spent many years on motorcycles, ..I know how to look around and watch everyone else. Defensive driving they call it, God knows, I need it with those SPECS cameras around and the idiots who only watch their speedo, why else would they reduce the speed on a perfectly safe dual carriageway to 50!!

The vast majority of accidents on the 77 are caused by stupidity, very rarely is it the roads fault. It doesn't ask driver's to apply make up, change the CD or radio station, read sat-nav screens instead of looking out the windows, and keep driving so close behind trucks the driver can't see them in the mirrors etc.

Wouldn't argue with that, so when the cameras come down, things will get safer, ok? After all they're only there to make money ...when they're actually switched on! South Ayrshire has just lost a very lucrative process, i.e. the first time in history they've been able to tax someone (the motorist, who else) has been taken away and instead they've been given a road safety only grant. Its only a matter of time before the cameras come down, as they now have to maintain them separately..

Since when did police officers cause as much carnage as everyone else?

Since forever! You seriously believe your all safe at any speed, and its always someone elses fault? I've been in the company of serving traffic cops, I work with a retired one on occasion, and the stories and experiences are dreadful to recount.

Less than a quarter of half of one per cent of police call outs result in accidents involving police vehicles. Most RTC's involving police vehicles are by members of the public who pull out in front of vehicles with a full compliment of lights blazing, but they will try and nip in front or cross over anyway, and badly misjudge the speed and distance.

Who is arrogant now! Get real

I could go on, but I'm on a nightshift, with a guaranteed RTC in the mix, my face possibly spat on, and maybe a drunk in a hospital to pull off a nurse being attacked, which once was our sister Laura.

Like I said, take it further and see if you can actually make a difference, or is it just a job with a good pension?

I wish you all the very best in your chosen career, and hope that you can rise above what you know to be wrong in your career.

Cheers..

[Usquanigo]

FMJ, good reply, but you missed the bit about how she was so "woe is me! my job is SOOOO hard!" - well damn, that sucks that she was forced to take such a horrible job.... oh wait a minute, that's right! She wasn't forced, she CHOSE that line of work!

It's the same tired S*** everywhere you go. They take the job voluntarily, then they throw their weight around and smack the population up just to make themselves feel important, then they cry you a river whenever they are called out for being arrogant wastes of time, money, and quite possibly DNA.

Barricade's motto was far more accurate for all cops, no matter what country or city you happen to be in.

[Moira Mac]

Gillian was speaking not for herself, but in general for everyone.
You failed to notice that.

She is not in the 'woe is me' brigade, she chose her job, and accepts what goes with it. You failed to notice that.

Gillian has no time for pen pushers and armchair detectives who think they know better.

She has colleagues who were involved in a crash in November 2005, a driver pulled across the road and they hit the side of their car. Both occupants of the car died, plus the baby the woman was carrying. The local press hounded the actions of the police, scrutinising everything, making up stuff to make it more interesting! Facts were not an option.

They refused to print that the car's female driver was so drunk she
couldn't see the lights of the oncoming police van, and she thought the gap in the streetlights was the junction she had to take. She had been drinking for at least 10 hours, was refused a drink by a barmaid, she sent a text asking for a lift home, the person didn't reply, so she drove anyway.

The gap in the lights was caused by a street light that was out, and had been reported several times.

The car turned right with less than 40 feet before it would have passed the police van. No one travelling at 30mph would have stopped in time, in this case the limit is 40.

Also just before the accident, the police van approached a junction, and a car doing well in excess of 60 slowed right down when the driver saw the police. They let him off and decided not to pursue it. Had the driver not slowed down, chances are the couple and their unborn child would have been hit by a car doing at least 60, instead of a van doing just under 30.

I wonder how often this sort of thing happens and the local hacks make it look like the police are to blame? The local papers failed to let people know that she was both seriously drunk and 28 weeks pregnant and the rest.

She was so drunk she couldn't see a Mercedes van, white in colour, headlamps on, and under street lighting.

[Usquanigo]

I did not fail to notice anything. She chose the job, but she still whines about how hard and terrible it is in order to make excuses for the out and out utter bullshit they do, and get away with.

So you have a drunk driver story. Your point is......? That was a huge tirade for nothing, she was drunk, that had nothing to do with anything other than the fact that the driver was drunk (and not to bright either, by the sound of it). I've been in accidents caused by "typical" female drivers, as well as old people (who shouldn't be driving either). It never got reported, and old people still don't have to re-take their license tests, even though they are dangerous.

However, we see cops being filmed, brutally beating a man to within inches of his life and getting acquitted until there's a race riot. We see a cop shooting sleeping 7 year olds in the back while responding to domestic disturbance call, and getting a slap on the wrist. We see cops opening fire on a man holding a toddler hostage and killing the little girl in the process, it gets reported, but soon ignored and none of the cops got much in the way of a reprimand.

They are there for each other, and they write tickets to cover their salaries.

Traffic tickets are PURELY about money, nothing more, nothing less. And it's typical of cops to think that only they can drive, arrogant sons-of-bitches.

[willing to try]

thought this topic started off on speed cameras but any how some good points rasied for and against here, all i want to say is that speed cameras are ment to be used in "areas of accident black spots" so how can they justify putting them up on newly constructed by passes where they have no records or statistics of accidents? purely a money grabbing device if u ask me? i have alot of time for speed cameras in 30 limits, outside schools etc but on motorways and by passes nothing can justify that except its where people will be travelling the fastest (why catch some one doing 35 in a 30 where they could kill a kid when u can catch someone doing 90 on a 3 lane motorway!). And as for police beliving they are better at driving than any one else i agree i have seen some terrible driving from traffic cops, ive been cut up tailgated (when i had no where to go) its disgusting. Oh and worst of all on a small road with nowhere to go i accelerated to above the speed limit and actually lost the officer behind untill i found somewhere to pull out the way so he could resond to his call quickly and the next day i get the same officer on my door ripping me to shreads for it!!! go figure