Knife Crime in UK - Solution?

[swee]

I'm against incarceration for a lot of crimes. It's expensive, usually futile in rehabilitating people/changing their mindset and only enables people to learn new criminal skills (as told to me by a friend who served some time). I think the punishment should be related to the crime, e.g. sending convicted people to work at hospitals and morgues, putting them into military service etc.

[Ming]

Thanks Ming. I think there are a couple of points that need to be borne in mind though. The vast majority of offenders are under thirty and in many cases haven't experienced proper discipline or boundaries either at home or at school, simply because the good old fashioned discipline which kept people largely on the straight and narrow in the past became unfashionable in the Seventies and much of it's been curtailed by law since. Consequently a generation has grown up without proper boundaries or consequences to fear if those boundaries are crossed. Result, overcrowded prisons which can't do their job properly. Boot camps would give offenders a taste of the real discipline they've not had earlier on in life and teach them respect not only for other people but for themselves. Military training could be combined with hard, productive work and an element of compulsory schooling - including Maths on a Monday morning.

It would be a fine thing if they could find a way to make it work. But what if the offender refuses to do the 'training' preferring instead the easy-life in prison? If people could be put to work doing something useful like litter picking and incentivised to do so by perhaps a day off of their sentence for every ton of litter collected, it would be of direct benefit to everyone and would not involve keeping them in an institution. It would do little or nothing to rehabilitate them, but then neither does prison these days.

[Ady6970]

Certainly the litter collecting option could be a useful and productive option as could removing graffiti from buildings. If boot camps were introduced I don't think prison should be offered as an alternative. I don't see why offenders should have any say in their punishment.

[Ming]

Certainly the litter collecting option could be a useful and productive option as could removing graffiti from buildings. If boot camps were introduced I don't think prison should be offered as an alternative. I don't see why offenders should have any say in their punishment.

The problem is, what do you do if the offender simply refuses to the work, or to do as they are told?

[Ady6970]

Well either you make them do as they're told or give them a spell of solitary confinement during which to consider (hopefully reconsider) their actions.

[billy69]

give them a spell in some army style (old fashioned) prison run by sas wallas. any nonsense - a good battering. hard labour too - no work - no food etc & a hefty dose of corporal punishment. thick gits would soon get the message

[Ming]

give them a spell in some army style (old fashioned) prison run by sas wallas. any nonsense - a good battering. hard labour too - no work - no food etc & a hefty dose of corporal punishment. thick gits would soon get the message

What a convincing argument that really is. I can't think of a better use for people who have undergone the most rigorous of military training regimes than babysitting petty criminals. If you want to engage in political debate, it is generally best to be in possession of at least traces of intellect.

[billy69]

i think the biblical term is 'go away jerkily' mangy. as one of lifes 'do gooders' - surely even u can manage that

[billy69]

as one who has drifted amongst such scum in my biker days mangy, i think i understand just a little of what makes these morons tick & how to focus their attention in a positive way - they generally understand only one thing - & if you don't break them - they willl certainly break you

[FMJ]

Much heavier sentences, or some other form of deterrant.

We need to bring back the fear element into the law and a sense of revenge, satisfying the relatives and victims of knife crime.

[billy69]

spot on fmj - there is a fine line between fear and respect - trouble is - the toerags these days don't understand either - but i do enjoy the look on their faces when they get a smack in the mouth that they think couldn't possibly happen in these 'pc' times.

pc etc. means absolutely f*** all to me - I am a product of the baby boomer era - brought up in the 60s & a biker for most of my life - altho i don't look the part, i am able to put people over with either hand - so i don't suffer fools gladly - why should i?

[billy69]

. almost forgot - i'm into boxing too

[NoLies]

Any one cuaght carrying a knife does 2 years National Service, Sorted I guarantee you, the only trouble with that solution though is that the British Government would be labeled Racist, and if you dont know why that is, you don't live in the UK...or..........no perhaps ide better not.


And only those caught carrying a knife NO ONE ELSE.

[Guest]

Our forces aren't a dumping ground for losers with knives. These scum will do their 3 years and come back out into society with a professional killing skill and mindset. What worked 70 years ago won't work now.

Loss of liberty for extended periods so the perpetrators lose much of their useful living years to break their spirit. Then cast them out to finish their lives doing purely and realistic community work.

Murderers should have a trial, one appeal within 3 months, if that fails, then its an immediate death sentence. Witnessed and possibly participated in by the relatives of the victim. Can't get fairer than that.. We save public money, the relatives have their revenge, which is a basic human need at these times to help with the grieving process...

No-one should want the death penalty re-instated unless they are prepared to take part and possibly be called upon to actually do it, maybe via a random selection like those called for jury duty. Too many pinko/bleeding heart/liberal/lefty/do-gooders in this country who prefer to let someone else do their dirty work. Stand up and be counted! It should also be made public and televised. As barbaric as this sounds, it would work as a deterrent, as this is a barbaric world regardless of what anyone else thinks.

[Ming]

Our forces aren't a dumping ground for losers with knives. These scum will do their 3 years and come back out into society with a professional killing skill and mindset. What worked 70 years ago won't work now.

Loss of liberty for extended periods so the perpetrators lose much of their useful living years to break their spirit. Then cast them out to finish their lives doing purely and realistic community work.

Murderers should have a trial, one appeal within 3 months, if that fails, then its an immediate death sentence. Witnessed and possibly participated in by the relatives of the victim. Can't get fairer than that.. We save public money, the relatives have their revenge, which is a basic human need at these times to help with the grieving process...

No-one should want the death penalty re-instated unless they are prepared to take part and possibly be called upon to actually do it, maybe via a random selection like those called for jury duty. Too many pinko/bleeding heart/liberal/lefty/do-gooders in this country who prefer to let someone else do their dirty work. Stand up and be counted! It should also be made public and televised. As barbaric as this sounds, it would work as a deterrent, as this is a barbaric world regardless of what anyone else thinks.

I certainly agree with the first part of your message, but have to take issue with the second. You may well be prepared to 'press the button', but I am not. I would not regard myself as a 'pinko' or someone opposed to any form of violence having spent ten years as a martial arts instructor, and 22 playing Rugby. The difference is, that I knew that if someone wanted to fight me, the presumption of innocence didn't enter into it.

While I would be more than capable of exacting appalling revenge on someone that I knew had hurt or killed a member of my family, state sponsored revenge belongs to the dark ages.

Let's take the hypothetical situation where someone became the National Lottery executioner for the week, did the deed and later found that the person executed was innocent after all. Could you live with that? I don't think most people could.

I would rather face any punishment the state cared to devise than press that button.