"real naked women are just bad porn" Naom

[Janelle]

I'd be interested to hear what the women out there whose men are into porn think about this article.

http://nymetro.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/index.html

[Lola]

I'm a woman who has watched a lot of porn.Why is the talk always about men who watch porn,are women who watch porn such a small minority ?
Reading articles on porn,you'd think womens interest in porn is non existant.

Anyway,i agree with the article to some extent.I have been there in the reversed role,wanting a man who is a ''f*ck machine''.Not very realistic,despite the myth that all men always want to have sex.

I'm not opposed to the things in mainstram porn,as i like them myself,but i would agree with the general idea Naomi Wolf portrays,it is very true.
The last part of the article is a bit over the top for my taste though.

Concerning the men i have relationships with; they do watch porn but they prefer ''real'' women.

[Susie from London]

I've read that article and can't say that I've ever found that men have lost interest in sex after viewing porn - just the reverse. I'm all for porn and love sharing it with my partners (of both sexes).

[WiredCoffeeJunkie]

<sigh> All that porn blew out my pleasure receptors. I guess I'll have to have my girlfriend do lesbian sex to get my interest back...

<snicker> Thanks for the article... lmao

[Lola]

You didn't read the article thouroughly,ey ?

[WiredCoffeeJunkie]

I was riveted from beginning to end Lola. When the topic begins with "Here is what young women tell me on college campuses" my attention is fully engaged.

I also love the "Sex secrets of the stars" and "Painless weight loss before the holidays". Gets my attention everytime.

[brightstar65]

Naomi Wolf is another in a long line of feminists who make uneducated, misinformed, and self serving guesses and then try to force everyone to think the same way.

First, I cannot screw a DVD or a videocassette. A live warm woman can never be substituted by media, (unless of course it is a sex automaton ala the movie AI), but I digress.

Second, Dworkin has no clue what men are about. To think that porn would turn men in raping beasts is an abomination. If anything, my recent experiences reading women's posts, talking to married male friends, and reading up on women indicates women are far more violent, agressive, rude, arrogant towards men on average than the other way around.

Third, the deadened male libido is the result of a generation of men raised by single mothers, who have no males to teach them how to treat women, how to seduce, romance, etc. Worse yet, my generation of men has been drilled by the media and the women around us that we are worthless vermin, who at the drop of a hat would r**** and kill if we could and that we have no value compared to the superior, godlike women that we are fortunate to have around us tho we do not deserve it. Deadened male libido is also the result of mixed messages from women as to how to be approached about relationships, noone seems to know what the 'game' is anymore, so everything reverts to a caveman mentality of sex sex and more sex. Women also seem

to want to clobber men with the twin ideas than men should do all the heavy lifting in life yet reap none of the benefits. We men are supposed to be responsible yet limited while women get all the freedoms and none of the repsonsibilities. Overall the message is, we women rule and you cannot do anything about it. I am deadened to women as all men are as a resault of this one sided idea of gender 'equality'.

Fourth, the craze to improve the body, both men and women are engaging in this silly affair, is media and money driven. Everyone wants to be loved. Women are valued for their youth and beauty, as 4 billion years of genetic programming reinforces, and men for their status and power. Since most men lack power, they resort to enhancing their bodies too. I prefer a bright woman with integrity and real unsiliconed breasts over a puffed up porn bimbo hands down, and almost all of my male friends would say the same thing.

Fifth, if women feel the 'exchange value' of their vagina is coming down, it only proves my worst suspicion, that women USE sex to manipulate men. Not a pretty picture and maybe men deserve some credit for breaking from the 'gulag'.

Sixth, women give up sex quickly, but not for the reasons Wolf states. This one I'll have to think about some more and maybe some women can pipe in on this subject.

Seventh, erotic charge depends on men romancing women and women feeling comfortable indulging in sexy thoughts. In the USA at least, the puritan ethic rules, and sex guilt puts a pall on everyone but the most degenerate girls. The other girls mindlessly and unenthusiastically play follow the leader. I do not want to get into the idea that women have a poor judgement when it comes to picking men to be compatible as long term partners. In my experience, women generally are rewarding the bad boys with sex, who then dump them, while good but (seemingly) not as exciting men, pay retail to get scraps. The good men then play down to women's expectations by following the lead of the bad boys. Not a good trend and one that devalues relationships, sex, and marriage all in one fell swoop. and it also makes women not trust ALL men, even the good ones.

Eighth, I resent that Wolf seems to imply that as long as the sex revolution worked in women's favor, it was all good. But now that she thinks she sees the bad side of the equation, it is therefore a bad thing. She and many other women only seem to want to skim the cream and not want the rest of the cake. How does that work when it comes to projecting a sense of INTEGRITY, RESPONSIBILITY, and INTELLECT to men who are BEGGING for this from their women?

Wolf is right on one thing, women should be more coy about showing their sexuality.

but I think overall, she and Dworkin have ZERO clue about reality, men, society, history, and what makes the world turn. All I see is two man hating mental dwarves. They are two media whores pandering to women's sense of being wronged.

I should be writing the freaking books. To those who think I hate women or something. WRONG AGAIN. I am starving for some understanding between the sexes. this one sided sex war, with women calling all the shots, has destroyed the battlefield and all of us, men and women both are now suffering for it and there seems to be no end in sight.

brightstar65

wow, I guess I was inspired to write so much

[hi_there]

I'm male. I first discovered porn in the form of a Hustler magazine at a construction site in the 1970's. (I was ten years old I think.) Needless to say I thought it was pretty special and verrrrrrry exciting. Growing up in a relatively rural area, I had few friends and even fewer opportunities to ahh, learn about girls.

As my life progressed, I continued to take an interest in porn and was frequently amazed to see things which I had thought could only occur in my mind being depicted in photographs by others. I did find it educational in some ways and liberating in others (or at least reassuring. "Oh, I guess I'm not such a freak after all." lol)

At some point during the 80's porn in general seemed to shift toward more plastic looking women (airbrushed models etc) and although they were not unattractive, they would not have been my first choice in real life - and thus the porn actually seemed less interesting to me and my interest waned. I went years without making any effort to look at porn at all.

Then the Interporn, I mean the Internet grew popular and I found that I had access to different kinds of porn (than I had ever known existed.) I STILL find it educational (and occasionally shockingly so.)

For whatever reason, something has led me to prefer still images over video and un-retouched pictures of regular gals to the "perfect" plasticity of models under expert lighting. I guess that I view the two types as being wholly different artforms - cubism vs. just plain naked women for instance. I'll take the just plain naked women any time, please and thank you very much.

I would categorize my interest as willful compulsion - when I am interested, I am VERY interested and I allow the interest to carry me along. I don't see my interest in porn as detracting from my sex life and if anything, porn has made me less likely to shout "That's disgusting!" during sex (I've thought it a few times when I was younger but I was already aware from porn that people do do those sorts of things and well, who am I to judge. Now I wonder what my problem was... it's all so much fun!)

I do see my difficulties in open communication detracting from my relationships and there does seem to be a clear connection between the times that I have viewed relationships as difficult and the times I have been most interested in porn. I'm saying that for me at least, it's a symptom and not a cause of problems within a relationship.

I think that I have enjoyed porn most because I feel less strange about my own desires when seeing similar things depicted in photographs. I also think that it allows me to selfishly pursue my own sexual interests without feeling guilty. In both cases without question, I'd rather have a better relationship and sex life with my partner than porn. Sadly, that is always far more difficult than finding some entertaining photos _.

Perhaps because of it's easy availability, I generally do look at times even without feeling driven to do so. However, since discovering this forum I haven't been browsing any porn sites at all. Imagine that, I'd rather read and respond to the posts here (especially Lola's) than look at purdy pictures. Whatever could be wrong with me?!

[WiredCoffeeJunkie]

She is not:
Uneducated - Went to Yale and Oxford. Oxford on a Rhodes scholarship no less.

She is not:
Man hater - A women who holds intrinsic resentment toward men of any kind or race; Men whom are single, married, divorced, widowed, virgins, players, nice or mean; Men whom are Black, white, yellow, or green.

She is:
Self serving - Writing pop pseudo-scientific crap with no references, or effort beyond getting past writers block and passing it as fact.

She is:
Making money selling this tripe to people who want justification of their own anger.

[mostirreverent]

I find dworkin to be brilliant in terms of unfounded conjecture. Very interesting points, however full of holes. http://www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/WarZoneChaptIVH.html

I find in life and at this site that woman’s perspectives on sex are no different now than in the late 70’s. The last time I looked, an attractive woman still made men act like hormone poisoned schoolboys.

Most women of porn are far from submissive. To the supposed men in this article, one would assume they would run to hills at the sight of such a sex hungry beast.

“Routine use of all available female orifices” is a good thing. Why wait till your 30’s to try Anal.

[Lola]

I was riveted from beginning to end Lola. When the topic begins with "Here is what young women tell me on college campuses" my attention is fully engaged.

I also love the "Sex secrets of the stars" and "Painless weight loss before the holidays". Gets my attention everytime.

Oh,i see.I'm more of the person who focusses on the core of a story.
Anyway,i can only talk from my experiences,my (high) porn consumption and how it affected my way of how i see sex (be ever ready etc).

[stv375inusa]

It's the truth.
Yes, certain porn stars MAY be attractive. But in my own case it's their SENSUALITY that may win me over. IF they have a powerful sensuality that can manage to leak out of their bodies between their immense fake boobs... YES, I'll find them attractive.

But I don't find them so much attractive for the HUGE silicone implants.

It's the sensuality that wins me over (and ultimately turns me on... Or, I should say, it can turn me on ULTIMATELY).

For instance, some of the absolute HOTTEST porn I enjoy is that of women who tend to be older... Not (necessarily) pumped up with silicone, and definitely NOT total hard bodies...

But... they MAY be, absolutely HOT and you can just TELL that they are enjoying themselves, (which is VERY sexy) and it is THEY who keep driving themselves (and their male/female lovers) to cum, and then cum again... and again... and they are so DAMN HOT! (okay, now I've gotta go... LoL) but, anyway, the point is...

Yes, the use of porn,
And the various images that it lauds as attractive DO say something(s) about society. And what is implied as attractive... in society.

[Susie from London]

I'm with you stv .... etc

[WiredCoffeeJunkie]

Oh,i see.I'm more of the person who focusses on the core of a story.
Anyway,i can only talk from my experiences,my (high) porn consumption and how it affected my way of how i see sex (be ever ready etc).

You're right, I didn't comment on the story itself. I could rewrite it and substitute "women on campuses" with "men on campuses" and change "porn" to "long fat dildos

[Lola]

Oh,i see.I'm more of the person who focusses on the core of a story.
Anyway,i can only talk from my experiences,my (high) porn consumption and how it affected my way of how i see sex (be ever ready etc).

You're right, I didn't comment on the story itself. I could rewrite it and substitute "women on campuses" with "men on campuses" and change "porn" to "long fat dildos

It's obvious you didn't read the whole thing thoroughly,as you are only focussing on one aspect,that doesn't have that much to do with the article to begin with,imho.