Seat belts....should it be my choice?

[Ady6970]

I can't think that's anything other than a very selfish outlook on life, an outlook which thinks only of #1 and doesn't take other people into account. Whether we love seatbelts or hate them the law insists on them being worn for a reason - to save lives.

No, of course you can't, because you want people mircomanaged and "protected from themselves", because you don't give a S*** about freedom or rights.

Call it whatever you want to call it. The fact of the matter is, it's on YOU to save YOUR life. Read that 10 times a day and maybe someday it'll sink in. It's NOT up to the gov't to do it. If you want to be safe, protect your self and piss the F*** off when someone else doesn't want to do it. It's not your call. No matter how much you feel entitled to controlling someone's entire existance.

In your own car, you can make that call - wear it or get out, just like I do with smokers - don't smoke in the car, or don't ride. But in their on car, you have no right to get involved. Life your own damn life and worry about your own issues.

The real irony is that the REAL selfishness is from YOU, wanting to have YOUR views and desires foisted on everyone else and being miserable unless they are. You're so full of yourself, so damn high and mighty, that you feel your views are the only valid ones and that everyone else must be protected from themselves because YOU feel they should be. God, talk about ego.

I actually care very much about people's rights. However I don't believe that they should always be unqualified and I certainly believe they should be - indeed are - matched by duties. All of us have duties. At their most basic they begin with obeying parents and teachers when we're young. Later on in life we have a duty to comply with the reasonable wishes of our employers. We also have a duty to pay our way in life and to obey the law of the land. Currently the law of the land requires us to wear seatbelts and we should do our best to comply with that requirement, not just for our own sake but for that of others. You're very naive if you imagine that by choosing not to wear a seat belt you're only putting your own life at risk. If you're in the back seat of a car and it crashes whilst you're not wearing a seatbelt the likelihood is you'll be thrown forward and kill or seriously injure whoever happens to be sat in front of you.

Last week I was a passenger in a friend's car and she had to break unexpectedly and with some considerable force at the junction of what's normally a quiet country road. Luckily we both had seatbelts on. If we hadn't, there's a good likelihood we'd both have gone through the windscreen.

Somehow I don't think I'm going to convince you of the necessity of seat belts on today's roads. It was a different matter in the days of relatively few vehicles, emptier roads and much less chance of accident. Quite apart from the legal position, to not wear a seatbelt in today's conditions is quite frankly foolhardy. Sadly there will always be a minority who think they're invincible or simply take the attitude "I'm alright, Jack. F*ck everyone else!" If that attitude was less prevalent and a more public spirited one was common instead, the world would be a better place - for everyone.

[Usquanigo]

I actually care very much about people's rights. However I don't believe that they should always be unqualified and I certainly believe they should be - indeed are - matched by duties. All of us have duties. At their most basic they begin with obeying parents and teachers when we're young. Later on in life we have a duty to comply with the reasonable wishes of our employers. We also have a duty to pay our way in life and to obey the law of the land. Currently the law of the land requires us to wear seatbelts and we should do our best to comply with that requirement, not just for our own sake but for that of others. You're very naive if you imagine that by choosing not to wear a seat belt you're only putting your own life at risk. If you're in the back seat of a car and it crashes whilst you're not wearing a seatbelt the likelihood is you'll be thrown forward and kill or seriously injure whoever happens to be sat in front of you.

Last week I was a passenger in a friend's car and she had to break unexpectedly and with some considerable force at the junction of what's normally a quiet country road. Luckily we both had seatbelts on. If we hadn't, there's a good likelihood we'd both have gone through the windscreen.

Somehow I don't think I'm going to convince you of the necessity of seat belts on today's roads. It was a different matter in the days of relatively few vehicles, emptier roads and much less chance of accident. Quite apart from the legal position, to not wear a seatbelt in today's conditions is quite frankly foolhardy. Sadly there will always be a minority who think they're invincible or simply take the attitude "I'm alright, Jack. F*ck everyone else!" If that attitude was less prevalent and a more public spirited one was common instead, the world would be a better place - for everyone.

Ok, seriously, how stupid are you? I was trying to give SOME benefit of the doubt, but you went back to that same ridiculously stupid bullshite about endangering other people by not wearing a belt. Hearing that kind of thing, uttered with conviction, makes me want to have a Lewis Black-style near aneurysm.

But I should have seen it coming when you go on about a "duty" to blindly obey parents, teachers, and laws, as well as employers.

So, you are beyond arrogant, AND not real bright, and as evidence of that, you don't know what a duty is.

A citizens duty is to protect his (or her) rights, watch the gov't like a hawk and "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." (and YOU are trying to approac that jewel, VERY hard), to question ANY and ALL forms of authority (intelligently, not like the friggin hippies do), and provide for HIMSELF(!!!) and his family (and anyone else he CHOOSES to). And lastly, it is a citizen's duty to protect the country in the form of voting, jury duty, and militia defense.

That's it. It's is NOT a duty to blindly obey ANYone. It is not even a duty to work, really, all you have to do is provide for yourself, and if you can do that without working for someone (meaning, providing for yourself is not about money and doesn't always require an employer), that's perfectly ok. And best of all, it IS, in fact, a citizens DUTY to DISobey any and all bad laws. If convicted by the state, either the supreme court can rule the law unconstitutional, OR, a jury of peers can refuse to convict on the same grounds, thus nullifying the law.

If anyone chooses to do something dangerous, they have EVERY RIGHT to do it - smoking, drinking, sky diving, riding a motorcycle, racing on race tracks, rock climbing, playing with dangerous environments (see: Bear Grills), and on and on and on.

And the bit about going through a windshield, oh my god, that is priceless. Ok, you obviously have NO idea what you are talking about, and have never been in an accident without a seatbelt on. I have. I have CRACKED a windshield. You are NOT going through it without massive speed and a VERY old car. I've been in 5 accidents in pre-airbag cars. Never once have I gone through a windshield. 1 friend of mine was t-boned by someone speeding and disobeying a stop sign, spun his car around several times, landed him in a ditch, and obviously mangled the car, he is a BIG boy (about 5'9" and 400lbs), he did not harm his passenger, nor vice versa (neither had a belt on). Another friend t-boned a lexus which ran a red-light, he was going 60mph at the time of impact, he had no belt on - he scratched his head on the radar detector he installed in the roof himself.

None of us feel we are invincible, we just don't F****** want to wear it. But that's not the point here. The point here is you liberal touchy-feely bastards who desperately want to control everyone, arrogantly claiming you know better than they do. I don't want smoking banned, but I don't smoke and hate to be around it. I know that is incomprehensible to small minded control freaks like yourself, but it's called independence, individuality, and freedom. I would never ride a motorcycle without every safety item I could find, and think people who ride in shorts and no helmet are idiots, but they have the F****** right to do it and I'm NOT going to tell them otherwise, and I WILL stand alongside them to fight people like you.

Once again, live your own damned life and stay the F*** out of everyone else's.

[Ady6970]

Ok, seriously, how stupid are you? I was trying to give SOME benefit of the doubt, but you went back to that same ridiculously stupid bullshite about endangering other people by not wearing a belt. Hearing that kind of thing, uttered with conviction, makes me want to have a Lewis Black-style near aneurysm.

But I should have seen it coming when you go on about a "duty" to blindly obey parents, teachers, and laws, as well as employers.

So, you are beyond arrogant, AND not real bright, and as evidence of that, you don't know what a duty is.

A citizens duty is to protect his (or her) rights, watch the gov't like a hawk and "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined." (and YOU are trying to approac that jewel, VERY hard), to question ANY and ALL forms of authority (intelligently, not like the friggin hippies do), and provide for HIMSELF(!!!) and his family (and anyone else he CHOOSES to). And lastly, it is a citizen's duty to protect the country in the form of voting, jury duty, and militia defense.

That's it. It's is NOT a duty to blindly obey ANYone. It is not even a duty to work, really, all you have to do is provide for yourself, and if you can do that without working for someone (meaning, providing for yourself is not about money and doesn't always require an employer), that's perfectly ok. And best of all, it IS, in fact, a citizens DUTY to DISobey any and all bad laws. If convicted by the state, either the supreme court can rule the law unconstitutional, OR, a jury of peers can refuse to convict on the same grounds, thus nullifying the law.

If anyone chooses to do something dangerous, they have EVERY RIGHT to do it - smoking, drinking, sky diving, riding a motorcycle, racing on race tracks, rock climbing, playing with dangerous environments (see: Bear Grills), and on and on and on.

And the bit about going through a windshield, oh my god, that is priceless. Ok, you obviously have NO idea what you are talking about, and have never been in an accident without a seatbelt on. I have. I have CRACKED a windshield. You are NOT going through it without massive speed and a VERY old car. I've been in 5 accidents in pre-airbag cars. Never once have I gone through a windshield. 1 friend of mine was t-boned by someone speeding and disobeying a stop sign, spun his car around several times, landed him in a ditch, and obviously mangled the car, he is a BIG boy (about 5'9" and 400lbs), he did not harm his passenger, nor vice versa (neither had a belt on). Another friend t-boned a lexus which ran a red-light, he was going 60mph at the time of impact, he had no belt on - he scratched his head on the radar detector he installed in the roof himself.

None of us feel we are invincible, we just don't F****** want to wear it. But that's not the point here. The point here is you liberal touchy-feely bastards who desperately want to control everyone, arrogantly claiming you know better than they do. I don't want smoking banned, but I don't smoke and hate to be around it. I know that is incomprehensible to small minded control freaks like yourself, but it's called independence, individuality, and freedom. I would never ride a motorcycle without every safety item I could find, and think people who ride in shorts and no helmet are idiots, but they have the F****** right to do it and I'm NOT going to tell them otherwise, and I WILL stand alongside them to fight people like you.

Once again, live your own damned life and stay the F*** out of everyone else's.

Judging by that lot, I'd have thought stupdity was more your preserve than mine. However I should probably make some allowances. Judging from some of the things you've said, particularly in relation to the state and rights, I get the impression that you're probably on the other side of the pond to me. If that's the case then unlike me you'll be under a written consitution (with all its glorious 'amendments') and, if memory serves me correctly, some sort of Bill of Rights. On our side of the pond things are less tightly defined. We have to rely largely on the Magna Carta, good laws and liberal dose of old fashioned common sense.

As for the question of duty we have got a duty to obey those who are our superiors and to whom we're subordinates, be they parents, teachers or employers. Generally speaking they know best (even if we don't necessarily think so at the time) and their judgement should always be deferred to.

Of course nobody has to work if they don't want to. I never said they did. Most people have to work though as a matter of practical necessity - they haven't got the private means to get them through life unaided. Unless you have a very serious illness or disability and, believe me, it has to be serious, you won't get a penny out of the welfare system in our country unless you're actively seeking work and available to do it.

So far as the crashes you've been involved in are concerned, all I can say is that you've been very lucky. Then again, if you're in the States you probably have a different concept to me of what constitutes fast as I understand you have rather lower speed limits. I know for a fact that I would have gone through a windscreen last Wednesday if I'd not been wearing a seatbelt. Trust me on that one - I know what I'm talking about!

Furthermore I'll have you know I'm no ' liberal touchy feely b*****.' If it was up to me I'd bring back hanging for murderers, corporal punishment in both schools and prisons and reinstate the birch as a judicial punishment in itself. That's how liberal I am. Furthermore, the UK law governing the use of seat belts was actually passed when the Tories were the party in power - and they're the nearest equivalent to the Republicans across the Atlantic.

[Usquanigo]

Judging by that lot, I'd have thought stupdity was more your preserve than mine. However I should probably make some allowances. Judging from some of the things you've said, particularly in relation to the state and rights, I get the impression that you're probably on the other side of the pond to me. If that's the case then unlike me you'll be under a written consitution (with all its glorious 'amendments') and, if memory serves me correctly, some sort of Bill of Rights. On our side of the pond things are less tightly defined. We have to rely largely on the Magna Carta, good laws and liberal dose of old fashioned common sense.

As for the question of duty we have got a duty to obey those who are our superiors and to whom we're subordinates, be they parents, teachers or employers. Generally speaking they know best (even if we don't necessarily think so at the time) and their judgement should always be deferred to.

Of course nobody has to work if they don't want to. I never said they did. Most people have to work though as a matter of practical necessity - they haven't got the private means to get them through life unaided. Unless you have a very serious illness or disability and, believe me, it has to be serious, you won't get a penny out of the welfare system in our country unless you're actively seeking work and available to do it.

So far as the crashes you've been involved in are concerned, all I can say is that you've been very lucky. Then again, if you're in the States you probably have a different concept to me of what constitutes fast as I understand you have rather lower speed limits. I know for a fact that I would have gone through a windscreen last Wednesday if I'd not been wearing a seatbelt. Trust me on that one - I know what I'm talking about!

Furthermore I'll have you know I'm no ' liberal touchy feely b*****.' If it was up to me I'd bring back hanging for murderers, corporal punishment in both schools and prisons and reinstate the birch as a judicial punishment in itself. That's how liberal I am. Furthermore, the UK law governing the use of seat belts was actually passed when the Tories were the party in power - and they're the nearest equivalent to the Republicans across the Atlantic.

lol, I love it. It's amazing how greedy, scared, control freaks who cling to utterly ridiculous and false ideas about something, actually have the gaul to claim anyone who 1, knows better, and 2, prefers freedom rather than Orwellian/Stalinistic control, to be "stupid". Talk about irony.

That aside, yes, I am on the other side of the Atlantic, and yes we do have The Constitution and The Bill of Rights. The Constitution was influenced pretty heavily by the Magna Carta, with additional influencece from Rome, and ideas of the day, some of which had their roots in Free Masonic lodges back in Jolly Old. The Bill of Rights is, in essence, redundant, however the Anti-Federalists (and god bless 'em, every one) had the foresight to see how things could be abused if certain rights were not explicitly spelled out, because this new Federal Government-thing was getting to be far too powerful. The Articles of Confederation may have had their problems, but going back to a central authoritarian gov't was not the answer. So the compromise was the Bill of Rights.

It's good to hear that you are at least clear thinking and level headed enough to support capital punishment, but that in and of itself doesn't free you from being a touchy-feely type. Although, as it happens, it is admittedly, not entirely your fault, given your environment.

The sad, and truly frightening thing is how much this country is leaning to the left and becoming a socialist haven, like so much of Europe. No offence to you guys, you do what the hell you want to do, and in smaller populations, like Scandinavia, it may even seem to work, but not here.

And the worst part is, it sounds like we're not even doing it "right". Here the wellfare system is FAR too easy to abuse. People are encouraged to have kids, and rewarded for it. And those 2 things DO stack.

BTW, funny that you say torries are roughly equivalent to "Republicans". My first question would be - which Replublicans, and perhaps more to the point, what is your concept of them? Modern Republicans, especially those in power, AREN'T. They are moderates, which means slow moving liberals. And it's a result of the hippies owning the schools and media, and preaching entitlement and DEpendence and softness for several generations. Old school Republicans were much closer to modern Libertarians. Though funnily enough, the ORIGINAL Republicans were a cross between Libertarians and Nazis. (In that, they were generally Libertarian in belief, however were party to an illegal Federal usurpation of power (rather opposite the idea of a small, weak gov't with power inherent in the people))

Meanwhile, for me, torry means people who were on the wrong side.

Either way, the bottom line is this, it's MY choice if I want to risk injury, NOT yours. And that's what this is all about - your desire to control me, vs the morally correct (for lack of a better term, I'm not much on morals, but coudln't think of a better phrase) ideals. You're not even consistent in your drive, which only serves to show how wrong you are, on so many levels.

And for the record, the second friend I mentioned did slam into that lexus at 60mph, that's not exactly slow, no matter which side of the pond you're on. 1 of my wrecks was at 50-ish, and I pushed the car in front of me (which was stopped at a light - I was forced into the turning lane by some stupid bitch in a Volvo wagon) into the truck in front of it, injured the (*seatbelt wearing*) driver of the car in front of me, and totaled her car - I suffered a lightly sprained thumb from where my hand was resting on the T-handle shifter. Getting hit hard enough to have a car spin around and thrown into a ditch on the opposite side of the road does not happen at "slow" speeds either. Plus, we may have lower speed limits, but, that doesn't mean we drive that slowly. lol Our speed limits are artificially low, so cops can write tickets to cover their own paychecks, they exist to create the cashflow that sustains them. And so MOST people speed here. And by most, I mean somewhere in the neighborhood of 75% or more, virtually NOBODY drives the speed limit (and of course, those that don't speed tend to drive *under* it, the bastards). - And I do happen to have 1st hand experience with just how tough windshields are. (not that it matters because modern cars will never allow you to get that far)