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Postby Guest on Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:35 am

jojo22 wrote:There are a couple of factors that may make the next presidential election different to past trends.

Firstly, a glass ceiling was broken when Pelosi became the first female leader of the house of representatives. This may galvanize women to see the next glass ceiling broken - the first female president. I noted that females tended to vote more in the last election than males and that they tended to be more likely to vote democrat by about 10% or so. What is the likelihood that a number of typically republican women will be slipping Hillary the vote unbeknownst to their husbands because it's a vote for equality?

Secondly, Bush was quite the disaster and I don't know that America could handle the idea of giving the Republicans yet another term at the helm. Even if they find Hillary a bit too radical for their taste it still may seem a better option.

There was no "glass ceiling."

Anyone who considers the results of this mid-term election in the second term of a presidency as a resounding message from the voters is wholly ignorant about American government and the American political system.

The party of the President typically loses seats in both the Senate and House in mid-term elections and typically loses control of both chambers if it is in the majority.

Both Reagan and Clinton lost many more Senate and House seats in mid-term elections.

Bush was the exception in that the Republicans actually gained seats in both the Senate and House during the 2002 mid-term elections.

Republican women are not so simple-minded to vote for a woman solely based on gender. Hillary Clinton is the antithesis of Republicanism. And she is hated by women of both parties.

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Postby jojo22 on Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:20 pm

Well given that there has no been a female president or a female head of the house of representatives before now, I think it is a reasonable call to say that there has been a glass ceiling in effect for a long time but it is only now just starting to shatter.

Also, I am not ignorant to the American political system in terms of what you implied I was ignorant of - I know that it is standard for seats to swing to the other party in the mid-term elections of a presidents second term and I am also aware that they did not swing as strongly as has happened before. But I stand by my instinct that the democrats will take the helm at the next presidential elections and that it will be Hillary that takes the role. Even Cheney thinks this is what will happen!

What is so scary about Hillary? Is she scary because of how she might affect your wallet? She wants to improve the health system and redistribute wealth so that poverty is lessened. Yes, this hits big business, yes it is typically the tax paying middle income earners that are most hardest hit from tax increases. That's a standard scenario around the world.

I'm a middle income earner and yeah - it hacks me off that we get hit so hard and the rich have all manner of means to dodge the taxes that we have to pay up. They think middle income earners have bottomless pockets - and we don't and as those in poverty rise up, we come down to meet them. Ces't la vie.

What I would like to see is a fairer call for middle income earners. I would like to see the majority of money needed to equalize things coming from redistribution of the stockpiles of the super rich - big business who keep increasing their profit margins beyond their needs while paying their personnel poorly. I would like to see people taking what they need to keep a business afloat and jobs stable but not being greedy beyond that.

But the Hillary factor is not the biggest issue on the horizon - it is that we are consuming ourselves into extinction, led by a collective psychopathy of ever increasing profit margins at any cost (humanity be damned). If we don't do something NOW to change our ways then a catastophric change will be placed upon us by the planet - who, despite our arrogance to the contrary - ultimately controls who lives and dies. Over our evolution we forgot one critical thing - if we don't respect the environment we will pay a heavy price. Let's hope we can stop worshipping at the alter of the dollar before all is irredeemable.

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Postby jojo22 on Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:56 pm

. wrote:Anyone who considers the results of this mid-term election in the second term of a presidency as a resounding message from the voters is wholly ignorant about American government and the American political system.

The party of the President typically loses seats in both the Senate and House in mid-term elections and typically loses control of both chambers if it is in the majority.


Further on this, see:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_rob_kall_061117_clear_evidence_2006_.htm

There is resounding evidence of a serious mis-match between exit polls and actual votes from the last election. Evidence points to the voting machines being rigged some weeks in advance to give more votes to the Republicans - what they thought would be enough to ensure that they retained control of the senate and house. Unfortunately for them, the tide was so strong against them that they lost it anyway despite this serious fraud. So just how many seats would have been lost by the republicans if this fraud had not occurred?

As an American citizen you should be outraged by this. It is your right to have your vote count and your voice be heard, regardless of who you give your alligence to. This is an intolerable disregard for the voice of the American people - I hope many heads roll over it.

To the extent that the voting machines can be manipulated, the American people should demand that they are not used in future.

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Postby Guest on Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:00 pm

jojo22 wrote:
. wrote:Anyone who considers the results of this mid-term election in the second term of a presidency as a resounding message from the voters is wholly ignorant about American government and the American political system.

The party of the President typically loses seats in both the Senate and House in mid-term elections and typically loses control of both chambers if it is in the majority.


Further on this, see:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_rob_kall_061117_clear_evidence_2006_.htm

There is resounding evidence of a serious mis-match between exit polls and actual votes from the last election. Evidence points to the voting machines being rigged some weeks in advance to give more votes to the Republicans - what they thought would be enough to ensure that they retained control of the senate and house. Unfortunately for them, the tide was so strong against them that they lost it anyway despite this serious fraud. So just how many seats would have been lost if this fraud had not occurred?

As an American citizen you should be outraged by this. It is your right to have your vote count and your voice be heard, regardless of who you give your alligence to. This is an intolerable disregard for the voice of the American people - I hope many heads roll over it.

To the extent that these can be manipulated, the American people should demand that they are not used in future.

I am outraged by conspiracy theorists and those who believe them.

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Postby Guest on Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:09 pm

jojo22 wrote:Well given that there has no been a female president or a female head of the house of representatives before now, I think it is a reasonable call to say that there has been a glass ceiling in effect for a long time but it is only now just starting to shatter.

Also, I am not ignorant to the American political system in terms of what you implied I was ignorant of - I know that it is standard for seats to swing to the other party in the mid-term elections of a presidents second term and I am also aware that they did not swing as strongly as has happened before. But I stand by my instinct that the democrats will take the helm at the next presidential elections and that it will be Hillary that takes the role. Even Cheney thinks this is what will happen!

What is so scary about Hillary? Is she scary because of how she might affect your wallet? She wants to improve the health system and redistribute wealth so that poverty is lessened. Yes, this hits big business, yes it is typically the tax paying middle income earners that are most hardest hit from tax increases. That's a standard scenario around the world.

I'm a middle income earner and yeah - it hacks me off that we get hit so hard and the rich have all manner of means to dodge the taxes that we have to pay up. They think middle income earners have bottomless pockets - and we don't and as those in poverty rise up, we come down to meet them. Ces't la vie.

What I would like to see is a fairer call for middle income earners. I would like to see the majority of money needed to equalize things coming from redistribution of the stockpiles of the super rich - big business who keep increasing their profit margins beyond their needs while paying their personnel poorly. I would like to see people taking what they need to keep a business afloat and jobs stable but not being greedy beyond that.

But the Hillary factor is not the biggest issue on the horizon - it is that we are consuming ourselves into extinction, led by a collective psychopathy of ever increasing profit margins at any cost (humanity be damned). If we don't do something NOW to change our ways then a catastophric change will be placed upon us by the planet - who, despite our arrogance to the contrary - ultimately controls who lives and dies. Over our evolution we forgot one critical thing - if we don't respect the environment we will pay a heavy price. Let's hope we can stop worshipping at the alter of the dollar before all is irredeemable.

The United States has never been, is not now, and will never be, a socialist country.

The American economy is strong: unemployment is low, inflation is low and growth is solid.

Socialism is a formula for failure advanced by the lazy, the covetous and those in ivory towers divorced from reality.

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Postby jojo22 on Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:37 pm

elliott20 wrote:well, depending on what type of government job you're running for, having a foriegn mother might or might not make a difference.

Getting a clearance (which most public servants will have to get) could be a little tricky if you have connections with a known anti-US government personality. It's even worse when that person is your own mother.

However, that also depends on the clearance level.

A general public trust clearance (which is really not a clearance at all, it just allows you to work in a government building with non-classified info) requires you list I think your activities within the past 7 years such as where you lived and where you worked. As long as you can provide people to verify that, you're okay. Hell, they'll even take naturalized citizens, which means Jojo you technically could apply for that if you become an American citizen. However, this is contigent that you have not utilized your other citizenship's benefits since becoming an american citizen.

higher level clearance would require more info and more background checks about the company you keep and this is where your family and friends start getting interviewed by government employees with tricky questions about your attitude towards the US government. (which means, yes, these posts might get brought up)


Thanks Sweets, good to know - though no disrespect, I did - all up - 7 years as a public servant and have avowed that I will never go there again and certainly hope my daughter never does either. I enjoy my independent position to challenge government over issues that I think are important and are not adequately addressed.

When you sign up as a public servant you sign a document that says voicing an opinion that differs from your employers is a dismissable offence. That rankles this brash, cynical and rebellious Gen X'er to no end. I have no desire to be in a position where I am helpless and have to stand back and watch important findings (funded by the taxpayers dollars) be swept under the carpet at the expense of the wellbeing of citizens and for the purpose of protecting the face of a Minister EVER again. I have no desire to be invited to submit a supposedly confidential survey of my thoughts about a Commissioners talk and then to have a manager pull me into their office and berate me because in my survey I thought certain actions were indicative of a number of future redundancies to come and we were being point blank lied to about it (time supported my suspicions) EVER again.

The government is there but for the grace of the people to serve the people - I will never again be a public servant who is placed in a powerless position from which to witness great injustices for the preservation of a politicians face. Instead, I will be a thorn in their side demanding right action.

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Postby jojo22 on Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:52 pm

. wrote:
jojo22 wrote:Well given that there has no been a female president or a female head of the house of representatives before now, I think it is a reasonable call to say that there has been a glass ceiling in effect for a long time but it is only now just starting to shatter.

Also, I am not ignorant to the American political system in terms of what you implied I was ignorant of - I know that it is standard for seats to swing to the other party in the mid-term elections of a presidents second term and I am also aware that they did not swing as strongly as has happened before. But I stand by my instinct that the democrats will take the helm at the next presidential elections and that it will be Hillary that takes the role. Even Cheney thinks this is what will happen!

What is so scary about Hillary? Is she scary because of how she might affect your wallet? She wants to improve the health system and redistribute wealth so that poverty is lessened. Yes, this hits big business, yes it is typically the tax paying middle income earners that are most hardest hit from tax increases. That's a standard scenario around the world.

I'm a middle income earner and yeah - it hacks me off that we get hit so hard and the rich have all manner of means to dodge the taxes that we have to pay up. They think middle income earners have bottomless pockets - and we don't and as those in poverty rise up, we come down to meet them. Ces't la vie.

What I would like to see is a fairer call for middle income earners. I would like to see the majority of money needed to equalize things coming from redistribution of the stockpiles of the super rich - big business who keep increasing their profit margins beyond their needs while paying their personnel poorly. I would like to see people taking what they need to keep a business afloat and jobs stable but not being greedy beyond that.

But the Hillary factor is not the biggest issue on the horizon - it is that we are consuming ourselves into extinction, led by a collective psychopathy of ever increasing profit margins at any cost (humanity be damned). If we don't do something NOW to change our ways then a catastophric change will be placed upon us by the planet - who, despite our arrogance to the contrary - ultimately controls who lives and dies. Over our evolution we forgot one critical thing - if we don't respect the environment we will pay a heavy price. Let's hope we can stop worshipping at the alter of the dollar before all is irredeemable.

The United States has never been, is not now, and will never be, a socialist country.

The American economy is strong: unemployment is low, inflation is low and growth is solid.

Socialism is a formula for failure advanced by the lazy, the covetous and those in ivory towers divorced from reality.


Our economy is strong, our unemployment is low and our growth is solid (don't know about inflation - think that's low too). We have subsidized health care - not as good as the UK but certainly a hell of a lot better than the States. We have almost NO homeless people - it is very rare to see one.

When we look for more successful models to aspire to we look towards places like the Netherlands - we don't look towards the States. We trade little with the States cos we won't let them bring their nuclear weapons to our shores - and guess what - we don't need them anyway. There are a block of countries - all of Asia, Africa and Australia that we are setting up free trade deals with and with a free trade block of that size who needs the States?

America is such a great country to live in that Americans are immigrating to New Zealand in droves :lol:

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Postby jojo22 on Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:55 pm

. wrote:
jojo22 wrote:
. wrote:Anyone who considers the results of this mid-term election in the second term of a presidency as a resounding message from the voters is wholly ignorant about American government and the American political system.

The party of the President typically loses seats in both the Senate and House in mid-term elections and typically loses control of both chambers if it is in the majority.


Further on this, see:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_rob_kall_061117_clear_evidence_2006_.htm

There is resounding evidence of a serious mis-match between exit polls and actual votes from the last election. Evidence points to the voting machines being rigged some weeks in advance to give more votes to the Republicans - what they thought would be enough to ensure that they retained control of the senate and house. Unfortunately for them, the tide was so strong against them that they lost it anyway despite this serious fraud. So just how many seats would have been lost if this fraud had not occurred?

As an American citizen you should be outraged by this. It is your right to have your vote count and your voice be heard, regardless of who you give your alligence to. This is an intolerable disregard for the voice of the American people - I hope many heads roll over it.

To the extent that these can be manipulated, the American people should demand that they are not used in future.

I am outraged by conspiracy theorists and those who believe them.


And what will you do with your outrage if this conspiracy theory proves to be true? I bet you'll still think it's just a conspiracy :roll:

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Postby Guest on Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:06 pm

jojo22 wrote:
. wrote:
jojo22 wrote:Well given that there has no been a female president or a female head of the house of representatives before now, I think it is a reasonable call to say that there has been a glass ceiling in effect for a long time but it is only now just starting to shatter.

Also, I am not ignorant to the American political system in terms of what you implied I was ignorant of - I know that it is standard for seats to swing to the other party in the mid-term elections of a presidents second term and I am also aware that they did not swing as strongly as has happened before. But I stand by my instinct that the democrats will take the helm at the next presidential elections and that it will be Hillary that takes the role. Even Cheney thinks this is what will happen!

What is so scary about Hillary? Is she scary because of how she might affect your wallet? She wants to improve the health system and redistribute wealth so that poverty is lessened. Yes, this hits big business, yes it is typically the tax paying middle income earners that are most hardest hit from tax increases. That's a standard scenario around the world.

I'm a middle income earner and yeah - it hacks me off that we get hit so hard and the rich have all manner of means to dodge the taxes that we have to pay up. They think middle income earners have bottomless pockets - and we don't and as those in poverty rise up, we come down to meet them. Ces't la vie.

What I would like to see is a fairer call for middle income earners. I would like to see the majority of money needed to equalize things coming from redistribution of the stockpiles of the super rich - big business who keep increasing their profit margins beyond their needs while paying their personnel poorly. I would like to see people taking what they need to keep a business afloat and jobs stable but not being greedy beyond that.

But the Hillary factor is not the biggest issue on the horizon - it is that we are consuming ourselves into extinction, led by a collective psychopathy of ever increasing profit margins at any cost (humanity be damned). If we don't do something NOW to change our ways then a catastophric change will be placed upon us by the planet - who, despite our arrogance to the contrary - ultimately controls who lives and dies. Over our evolution we forgot one critical thing - if we don't respect the environment we will pay a heavy price. Let's hope we can stop worshipping at the alter of the dollar before all is irredeemable.

The United States has never been, is not now, and will never be, a socialist country.

The American economy is strong: unemployment is low, inflation is low and growth is solid.

Socialism is a formula for failure advanced by the lazy, the covetous and those in ivory towers divorced from reality.


Our economy is strong, our unemployment is low and our growth is solid (don't know about inflation - think that's low too). We have subsidized health care - not as good as the UK but certainly a hell of a lot better than the States. We have almost NO homeless people - it is very rare to see one.

When we look for more successful models to aspire to we look towards places like the Netherlands - we don't look towards the States. We trade little with the States cos we won't let them bring their nuclear weapons to our shores - and guess what - we don't need them anyway. There are a block of countries - all of Asia, Africa and Australia that we are setting up free trade deals with and with a free trade block of that size who needs the States?

America is such a great country to live in that Americans are immigrating to New Zealand in droves :lol:

New Zealand has more sheep than humans.

People from all over the world are literally dying to emigrate to America.

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Postby Guest on Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:08 pm

jojo22 wrote:
. wrote:
jojo22 wrote:
. wrote:Anyone who considers the results of this mid-term election in the second term of a presidency as a resounding message from the voters is wholly ignorant about American government and the American political system.

The party of the President typically loses seats in both the Senate and House in mid-term elections and typically loses control of both chambers if it is in the majority.


Further on this, see:

http://www.opednews.com/articles/genera_rob_kall_061117_clear_evidence_2006_.htm

There is resounding evidence of a serious mis-match between exit polls and actual votes from the last election. Evidence points to the voting machines being rigged some weeks in advance to give more votes to the Republicans - what they thought would be enough to ensure that they retained control of the senate and house. Unfortunately for them, the tide was so strong against them that they lost it anyway despite this serious fraud. So just how many seats would have been lost if this fraud had not occurred?

As an American citizen you should be outraged by this. It is your right to have your vote count and your voice be heard, regardless of who you give your alligence to. This is an intolerable disregard for the voice of the American people - I hope many heads roll over it.

To the extent that these can be manipulated, the American people should demand that they are not used in future.

I am outraged by conspiracy theorists and those who believe them.


And what will you do with your outrage if this conspiracy theory proves to be true? I bet you'll still think it's just a conspiracy :roll:

I don't waste my time speculating on improbabilities.

I don't "think it's just a conspiracy"; I know it's a conspiracy theory worthy of tinfoil hats.

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Postby jojo22 on Sun Nov 19, 2006 1:33 am

. wrote:
jojo22 wrote:
. wrote:
jojo22 wrote:Well given that there has no been a female president or a female head of the house of representatives before now, I think it is a reasonable call to say that there has been a glass ceiling in effect for a long time but it is only now just starting to shatter.

Also, I am not ignorant to the American political system in terms of what you implied I was ignorant of - I know that it is standard for seats to swing to the other party in the mid-term elections of a presidents second term and I am also aware that they did not swing as strongly as has happened before. But I stand by my instinct that the democrats will take the helm at the next presidential elections and that it will be Hillary that takes the role. Even Cheney thinks this is what will happen!

What is so scary about Hillary? Is she scary because of how she might affect your wallet? She wants to improve the health system and redistribute wealth so that poverty is lessened. Yes, this hits big business, yes it is typically the tax paying middle income earners that are most hardest hit from tax increases. That's a standard scenario around the world.

I'm a middle income earner and yeah - it hacks me off that we get hit so hard and the rich have all manner of means to dodge the taxes that we have to pay up. They think middle income earners have bottomless pockets - and we don't and as those in poverty rise up, we come down to meet them. Ces't la vie.

What I would like to see is a fairer call for middle income earners. I would like to see the majority of money needed to equalize things coming from redistribution of the stockpiles of the super rich - big business who keep increasing their profit margins beyond their needs while paying their personnel poorly. I would like to see people taking what they need to keep a business afloat and jobs stable but not being greedy beyond that.

But the Hillary factor is not the biggest issue on the horizon - it is that we are consuming ourselves into extinction, led by a collective psychopathy of ever increasing profit margins at any cost (humanity be damned). If we don't do something NOW to change our ways then a catastophric change will be placed upon us by the planet - who, despite our arrogance to the contrary - ultimately controls who lives and dies. Over our evolution we forgot one critical thing - if we don't respect the environment we will pay a heavy price. Let's hope we can stop worshipping at the alter of the dollar before all is irredeemable.

The United States has never been, is not now, and will never be, a socialist country.

The American economy is strong: unemployment is low, inflation is low and growth is solid.

Socialism is a formula for failure advanced by the lazy, the covetous and those in ivory towers divorced from reality.


Our economy is strong, our unemployment is low and our growth is solid (don't know about inflation - think that's low too). We have subsidized health care - not as good as the UK but certainly a hell of a lot better than the States. We have almost NO homeless people - it is very rare to see one.

When we look for more successful models to aspire to we look towards places like the Netherlands - we don't look towards the States. We trade little with the States cos we won't let them bring their nuclear weapons to our shores - and guess what - we don't need them anyway. There are a block of countries - all of Asia, Africa and Australia that we are setting up free trade deals with and with a free trade block of that size who needs the States?

America is such a great country to live in that Americans are immigrating to New Zealand in droves :lol:

New Zealand has more sheep than humans.

People from all over the world are literally dying to emigrate to America.


Yes, indeed NZ has more sheep than humans - guess we will never go hungry :lol:

I used to want to emigrate to the States, but not anymore. Do they still make kids say the pledge of alligence at school every day? Brainwashing much?

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Postby Guest on Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:54 am

Reduced to changing the subject by villifying the Pledge of Allegiance, eh? :lol:

With all due respect, you made the right decision by staying in the land of more sheep than people. :P

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Postby jojo22 on Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:05 am

Nope - not really - and it's not changing the subject either. The fact that the kids have to do that (my husband had to and he hated it) is yet another reason why I wouldn't go there because I wouldn't want my daughter subjected to that.

I really don't know why people think it's such a big deal that there are more sheep than people here. Sheep are not indigenous to New Zealand, they were brought here from Europe for farming because of the great expanses of farmable land. We export out lamb worldwide and there is nothing better than a lamb roast on a Sunday. NZ is a beautiful, unpolluted and non-crowded paradise. I live 5 minutes from the CBD of the Capital city - I can walk to work. We have an extensive back yard, segmented into three distinct areas - the last of which has 6 mature apple trees, a fig tree and a number of citrus trees. The native Tuis sing a beautiful song throughout the day. Now that, my friend, is living.

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Postby Guest on Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:14 am

Rest assured that kids do not "have to do that" now; nor were kids ever forced to recite the Pledge of Allegiance.

I don't know when your husband was in school in the U.S., but it really doesn't matter because any child has always been free to abstain from reciting the Pledge of Allegiance without adverse consequences.

Many public schools nowadays, and almost all private and parochial schools, have dispensed with the Pledge of Allegiance altogether.

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Postby Guest on Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:41 am

jojo22 wrote:Nope - not really - and it's not changing the subject either. The fact that the kids have to do that (my husband had to and he hated it) is yet another reason why I wouldn't go there because I wouldn't want my daughter subjected to that.

I really don't know why people think it's such a big deal that there are more sheep than people here. Sheep are not indigenous to New Zealand, they were brought here from Europe for farming because of the great expanses of farmable land. We export out lamb worldwide and there is nothing better than a lamb roast on a Sunday. NZ is a beautiful, unpolluted and non-crowded paradise. I live 5 minutes from the CBD of the Capital city - I can walk to work. We have an extensive back yard, segmented into three distinct areas - the last of which has 6 mature apple trees, a fig tree and a number of citrus trees. The native Tuis sing a beautiful song throughout the day. Now that, my friend, is living.

I have not been there yet, but I have no doubt that "NZ is a beautiful, unpolluted and non-crowded paradise."

I imagine people do have real life problems, however, even in "paradise."

I love Merino wool sweaters, so you Kiwis must be doing something right. :D

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