THE O'Bumma Thread - Original Vintage Edition

[ZiaAries]

[myron myron]

Bad analogy TopicOfGossip. I have the option to block Fred if I want and FF is for my entertainment, not for my spiritual guidance.

I stand by my previous statement. My vote for the President of my country will not be made because of the color of the candidates skin or gender. Humans (Zia included) have the right to vote as they see fit. It's a little more "complicated" than being implied.

BTW, I haven't made up my mind yet who I will vote for. I have until November to gather all the info and weigh it.

I think my analogy is quite apt. I know many people who go to church for entertainment as well as spiritual guidance!

I'm not trying to get you to vote for anybody, as you said that's your decision, but to denigrate someone because they have an association with somebody else, be that spiritual, sexual, as a mentor or whatever, I think is wrong. That's because you can in no way measure exactly what influence that person has had on that individual's life.

You're putting the influence of spiritual guidance above everything else which isn't right. What about the influence of parents? Spouses? Academic teachers and lecturers? Peers? Friends?

What a person is and what they believe is built up from many, many sources over many years of one's life, not just from a single source.

I have been to churches where the pastor has been frothing at the mouth with tales of fire and brimstone and eternal damnation for those who do not follow his interpretations of the Bible. I'll quite happily listen to the sermon but it doesn't mean I have to agree with or believe what was said. Quite the contrary actually.

As I said... people are a little more complicated than you implied.

But you're an atheist, not a believer and member of the congregation for more than 20 years who was married by that pastor and whose children were baptised by that pastor. Are you saying Obama is actually an atheist who is lying about his religious faith?

And Obama also has an association, nay a continuing friendship, with unrepentant former members of the terrorist Weather Underground. Should that not matter either?

Please . . .

[Topic Of Gossip]

But you're an atheist, not a believer and member of the congregation for more than 20 years who was married by that pastor and whose children were baptised by that pastor. Are you saying Obama is actually an atheist who is lying about his religious faith?

And Obama also has an association, nay a continuing friendship, with unrepentant former members of the terrorist Weather Underground. Should that not matter either?

Please . . .

Myron, you love trying to put words in my mouth don't you.

Where did I say or imply Obama is an atheist? Even if the Pastor delivered Obama's children and cleaned their bottoms, it still doesn't say what influence the Pastor had on Obama's life. And you cannot know this unless you are Obama himself.

There are a lot of other people who went to that church who I'm sure Obama must have talked to and been influenced by. What about them? You're going on like this pastor is the sole influence in the Obama's life and like a lemming he has to follow and believe every word the Pastor says, and I'm trying to say that like any normal person that cannot be the case.

I mean is there any one person in your life who has the kind of total influence that you're implying??

You cannot always judge a person by the company they keep. But this is exactly what you are doing.

Oh and I'm an aetheist?

[myron myron]

But you're an atheist, not a believer and member of the congregation for more than 20 years who was married by that pastor and whose children were baptised by that pastor. Are you saying Obama is actually an atheist who is lying about his religious faith?

And Obama also has an association, nay a continuing friendship, with unrepentant former members of the terrorist Weather Underground. Should that not matter either?

Please . . .

Myron, you love trying to put words in my mouth don't you.

Where did I say or imply Obama is an atheist? Even if the Pastor delivered Obama's children and cleaned their bottoms, it still doesn't say what influence the Pastor had on Obama's life. And you cannot know this unless you are Obama himself.

There are a lot of other people who went to that church who I'm sure Obama must have talked to and been influenced by. What about them? You're going on like this pastor is the sole influence in the Obama's life and like a lemming he has to follow and believe every word the Pastor says, and I'm trying to say that like any normal person that cannot be the case.

I mean is there any one person in your life who has the kind of total influence that you're implying??

You cannot always judge a person by the company they keep. But this is exactly what you are doing.

Oh and I'm an aetheist?

In American Presidential politics, a candidate's past and present associations matter big time.

[Topic Of Gossip]

In American Presidential politics, a candidate's past and present associations matter big time.

As it does in UK politics, but that's more to keep the 24 hour news channels happy and to give the newspapers something to print.

I can assure you that every political leader throughout history has had associations with undesirable people at some time or other. As I'm sure you and everybody else on the planet has as well. That's just called... life.

But to then say that these undesirables must have had a negative influence on the person can only really be classed as guess work, unless of course, you are extremely proficient in the art of "mind reading".

[myron myron]

In American Presidential politics, a candidate's past and present associations matter big time.

As it does in UK politics, but that's more to keep the 24 hour news channels happy and to give the newspapers something to print.

I can assure you that every political leader throughout history has had associations with undesirable people at some time or other. As I'm sure you and everybody else on the planet has as well. That's just called... life.

But to then say that these undesirables must have had a negative influence on the person can only really be classed as guess work, unless of course, you are extremely proficient in the art of "mind reading".

In American Presidential politics, unsavory past or present associations cost real votes.

[mogadishu]

I think it's a pretty good analogy. I know it doesn't capture the spiritual leader element, but...

There was one church I attended where I disagreed firmly with some of the things that were going on amidst the leadership. But it was still my church, with my friends, my choir, my ethos.

[Topic Of Gossip]

In American Presidential politics, unsavory past or present associations cost real votes.

That's really touching Myron.

That you are so concerned that Obama might lose. I'm sure he really appreciates your support.

[myron myron]

In American Presidential politics, unsavory past or present associations cost real votes.

That's really touching Myron.

That you are so concerned that Obama might lose. I'm sure he really appreciates your support.

He ain't getting it: I have never voted Democrat and never will.

[DanMc]

In American Presidential politics, unsavory past or present associations cost real votes.

That's really touching Myron.

That you are so concerned that Obama might lose. I'm sure he really appreciates your support.

He ain't getting it: I have never voted Democrat and never will.

Really?

[Big Ben]

O'Bumma associations:

tony resco - may go to jail as a mobster. O'bumma funneled millions in taxpayer money to him. Resco bought property next to the O'Bumma's and sold it to them. 17 year association with this unsavory character who isn't even a minister.

michelle obama - married this woman who thinks America in 2008 is a downright mean country and that she has never in her adult life been proud of America. This despite the widespread belief that she was the beneficiary of affirmative action to get into Princeton and Harvard Law School. Read her Princeton thesis. She was not Ivy League quality as she can't even write, much less get admitted to Harvard Law. Then she is pai over $300,000 per year to do community outreach for the University of Chicago hospital. Not a minister either, but will be whispering in barack's ear every night.

william ayers - unrepentant radical terrorist who bombed the Pentagon and the Capitol. Says he wishes he did more. o'bumma is friendly with him with a multi-year association, serving on boards with him, etc.

father phleger - racists, hateful minister who says America is raping people. o'bumma supported him with $1-200,000 of Illinois taxpayer money, an abuse of his power.

reverand wright - 20 year close relationship with a hateful, bitter, racists. In 20 days he should have quit the church, but it took him 20 year plus political necessity to distance himself.

This is a terrible pattern of associations which calls into question his judgment, intelligence, honesty and beliefs. He either is dumb or else sympathizes with these radicals.

O'Bumma shouldn't even be elected to be dogcatcher, much less be appointed an apprentice in the presidency of the US.

I hope he will listen to Hillary and Bill as his VP, and that Billary will be able to persuade him not to do anything too stupid when he runs America.

[Lena]

Michelle Obama sounds like a huge ingrate and hypocrite. She's dissing the country that sure didn't do to good treating her race but gave her MICHELLE all kinds of special privileges. .............

The others are all in the background , every big time politician must know folks just as whacko/sleazy .

Good lord look at bush who claims to be all holy ................lying to get a war started thats killed more people then 9/11, telling the VP & aide to set up the woman CIA agent , commuting the sentence of that jonathan pollard and warmonger libby , and trying to screw old people out of there pensions ..............

[Big Ben]

You are confusing actions that you dislike with associations, lena. And no politician I know has a pattern of long, close associations with radicals as O'Bumma. And those associations speak to the core of who he really is. Those associations could turn into bad actions, unless Congress and Billary can keep him in check. He is a very dangerous man.

[Lena]

The only real bad strong outside conection Obama has is with his preacher who I think underneath is more of a enertainer ala Lous Farakhan then crazy radical . He was a a marine and is off to live in a 10,000 square foot house in a rich white peoples area.

I've worked for Obama but must say don't care for his hypocrite wife or rev. show business and as far as Obama goes it seems right to think his lack of exerience could be trouble . Look at little georgey for a good example of that !

But still he is very smart and means well and America needs a change .

[Topic Of Gossip]

You are confusing actions that you dislike with associations, lena. And no politician I know has a pattern of long, close associations with radicals as O'Bumma. And those associations speak to the core of who he really is. Those associations could turn into bad actions, unless Congress and Billary can keep him in check. He is a very dangerous man.

That means you really don't know too many politicians Ben.

Or shall I put it more correctly... you can't be bothered to find out about the other politicians because all your time is spent concentrating on your pet hate... Obama.

Quite understandable though, as most people will not find fault with those they wholeheartedly support, but of course will find as many faults as they possibly can with those they either dislike or do not support. Pretty standard stuff really. Whoa betide any one be objective around here...

If you really look back through history (that's if you can be bothered of course) you'll find that every president has had dealings and ties with unscrupulous entities. Not necessarily because they sought them out but because lobbyists, antagonists and criminal elements all want to be associated with power and where the power lies i.e. the President.

Are you saying Obama has worse associations and connections than say Richard Nixon? It's well documented that Richard Nixon had strong ties with the Mafia. You might want to check out a few of his connections like... Carlos Marcello, Mickey Cohen, Jimmy Hoffa... to name a few.

But as I said it's quite standard to see all the negatives in your opponent and all the positives in the one you support. Hey, next you'll be telling me that Mary Poppins was actually McCain's real mother.

Please give this partisan crap a rest because really that's all it is. We all know who supports whom around here. It's a shame objectivity always seems to go into hiding around the time of elections.

Myself, I'm quite looking forward to the contest. McCain vs. Obama... may the best man win.