The most powerful military powers

[myron myron]

Okay, let’s see if we can get some objectivity out of myron. ”Supercarriers”…define a supercarrier. It is not, by chance, your country’s version of an aircraft carrier, is it? Just so we know, you’re not patting yourself on the back, are you?

“The most advanced in the world”…so what exactly does “advanced” mean?

Read and learn.

"A supercarrier is a warship belonging to the largest (unofficial) class of aircraft carrier, and generally has a displacement greater than 75,000 tons. Few countries operate carriers (such as Charles de Gaulle) with displacements larger than 40,000 tons, and those (such as HMS Illustrious) closer to 20,000 are more typical."

The meaning of "advanced" in this context refers to lethality, as illustrated by the following comparison of the 10 U.S. Navy Nimitz-class nuclear-powered supercarriers in service in 2008 with the two planned (will not be in service before 2014) British Queen Elizabeth-class electrically-powered carriers:

10 U.S. Navy Nimitz-class Nuclear-Powered Supercarriers in service in 2008
Displacement: 104,112 tons (full)
Speed: 30+ knots
Range: Unlimited (capable of continously operating for 20 years without refueling)
Aircraft carried: 85
Armament: Sea Sparrow launchers; 20 mm Phalanx CIWS mounts; RIM-116 Rolling Airframe Missile System

Source: U.S. Navy Fact File - Aircraft Carriers (CV, CVN)


2 Planned Royal Navy Queen Elizabeth-class Electric-Powered Carriers (earliest planned service date in 2014)
Displacement: 65,000 tonnes (full)
Speed: 28 knots
Range: 10,000 nautical miles (18,520 km)
Aircraft carried: 40 (maximum expected)
Armament: 1 twin Sea Dart Guided Weapon System 30 MOD launcher

Source: British MoD Factsheet - Future Aircraft Carriers (CVF)

Contrary to the Colonel's false contention about purported safety concerns, the actual reason the future British carriers will have less advanced, limited-range, slower electric propulsion rather than more advanced, unlimited-range nuclear propulsion is high cost of construction (though not of operation, as nuclear-propulsion has lower operating costs). The Brits cannot afford nuclear propulsion. (Source: Evidence given January 29, 2008 to House of Commons Defence Committee by General Sir Kevin O'Donoghue KCB CBE, Chief of Defence Materiel, David Gould CB, Chief Operating Officer, and Lieutenant General Dick Applegate OBE, Chief of Materiel (Land), Defence Equipment and Support, Ministry of Defence)).

The first U.S. Nimitz-class supercarrier went in service in 1975; the tenth and last of the class will be in service in 2008. Each successive construction incorporated improvements learned from operation of the previously constructed ships and technological advances. All previously constructed ships were subsequently retrofitted with the improvements and technological advances. There has never been a serious problem with any Nimitz-class nuclear propulsion system. The U.S. Nimitz-class supercarriers have proved -- in operation and in combat -- to be the most lethal, most effective warships ever produced. No other country possesses or is planning to possess even one nuclear-powered supercarrier or any other warship remotely comparable to their proven lethality.

The only warships conceivably more advanced than the Nimitz-class supercarriers will be the U.S. Navy's three next-generation Gerald R. Ford-class supercarriers, the first of which will be in service in 2013 -- one year before the first Royal Navy Queen Elizabeth-class carrier.

I trust the above will cure your ignorance on this subject.

[myron myron]

British carriers are actually designed around the Harrier jet, an ASTOL concept. It is a concept far advanced to the US. It combines aerial combat with maneuverability in support of field troops. The US is finding out in Iraq that the F-18 Hornet and the F/A-22 Raptor are limited in that they can only bomb the S*** out of everything, but what does that get you? The Harrier gets you support for ground troops, which means you capture. Didn’t think of that, did you myron?

Either: (a) you're joking and just made up the above off the top of your head; or (b) you are a clueless fool; or (c) you are a lying knave; or (d) all of the above.

Here's why you are talking bullshit:

* The two planned British Queen Elizabeth-class carriers will not be carrying the Harrier but the planned F-35 Joint Stirke Fighter. (Source: British MoD Factsheet - Future Aircraft Carriers (CVF)).

* There is no such thing as "an ASTOL concept" in any way related to this subject. "ASTOL concept" is a term you fabricated out of thin air.

* The Harrier is a Vertical/Short Takeoff and Land (V/STOL) subsonic light strike aircraft. Maximum airspeed = 550 KCAS/632.5 mph (speed of sound/Mach 1= 761.2 mph); Range = 900 nautical miles.

* The primary mission of the Harrier as employed by the Royal Air Force is that of a ground-attack fighter-bomber. The Royal Navy employs the aircraft in a fleet air-defense role. Link: www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/av-8.htm

* The U.S. Navy and U.S. Air Force have several types of supersonic aircraft vastly superior to the Harrier in "aerial combat," including:
F-15 Eagle: Speed = 1,875 mph (Mach 2 class); Range = 3,450 miles (3,000 nautical miles);

F-16 Fighting Falcon: Speed = 1,500 mph (Mach 2 at altitude); Range = more than 2,002 miles (1,740 nautical miles);

F/A-18 Hornet: Speed = Mach 1.6-1.7 (depending on model); Range = more than 1,800 nautical miles;

F-22 Raptor: Speed = Mach 2 class (with supercruise capability); Range = more than 1,850 miles.


* The U.S. Navy and U.S. Air Force have several types of fixed-wing aircraft (the U.S. Army has Apache attack helicopters) specially designed for "support of field troops" in specific scenarios that are superior to the Harrier in those scenarios, including:

F/A-18 Hornet;

A-10 Thunderbolt II (a/k/a "Warthog");

AC-130H Spectre (a/k/a "Spooky").

* The U.S. Marine Corps. uses an improved version of the Harrier, known as the AV-8B, manufactured in the U.S. by McDonnell Douglas, for the specific purpose of offensive air support to the Marine Air-Ground Task Force (MAGTF) because the V/STOL capability enables the AV-8B to operate from a variety of amphibious ships, rapidly constructed expeditionary airfields, forward sites (e.g., roads), and damaged conventional airfields. It is only in this specific role that the advantages of the Harrier's V/STOL capability outweigh the disadvantages of its slow speed, limited maneuverability in flight and limited range.

* Your contention that "the F-18 Hornet and the F/A-22 Raptor are limited in that they can only bomb the S*** out of everything," betrays utter ignorance that their respective missions are not as bombers (such as the B1-B Lancer, the B-2 Spirit, and the B-52 Stratofortress):
F-22 Raptor "is designed to project air dominance, rapidly and at great distances" in "both air-to-air and air-to-ground missions" with a "combination of stealth, supercruise, maneuverability" which "cannot be matched by any known or projected fighter aircraft."

F/A-18 Hornet is a supersonic, all weather, night, combined fighter and attack multi-mission aircraft that can operate from either aircraft carriers or land bases and fills a variety of roles: air superiority, fighter escort, suppression of enemy air defenses, reconnaissance, forward air control, close and deep air support, and day and night strike missions.


* "Support for ground troops" does not mean "you capture"; it means you eliminate any enemy threat to ground troops by killing the enemy.

I hope the above will disabuse you from talking more bullshit on this subject.

[Rebman]

I turn my back for a single moment and the childlike ‘my weapons are bigger than your weapons’ . starts up again.

Cambridge – The Harrier is not ASTOL (whatever that is). It is VSTOL (Vertical/Short Take-off and Landing). The F-35B is an ASTOVL (Advanced Short Take-off and Vertical Landing) aircraft.

Myron and Bobin – The Global Firepower website has some very strange figures in it, e.g. available military manpower seems to equate to the entire male population of each country, and what on earth do airports, railways, waterways, roadways and land area have to do with firepower?

Did neither of you read the note stating that:-
“Nuclear weapons, past and present military experience, training and equipment quality are NOT taken into account.”
As far as I am concerned, that makes the rankings meaningless.

Colonel – The new carriers will not be stealth, as you claimed, but the F-35 Lightning II aircraft do incorporate stealth technology derived from the F-22 Raptor.

Your ridiculous assertion that Britannia still rules the waves (as well as the rest of the world) shows that you live in a fantasy world, and that you have megalomaniac tendencies.

[cosmicB]

Britain had the "great brass ring of nations", and used it to invade and abuse innocents.. murdering, plundering, robbing, destroying, displacing indigenous peoples, molesting their babies with their bent little dinkies, and enslaving innocents, thereby losing Life's greatest most precious powers and gifts...

Britain is on a downhill slide from which there can be no recovery till it experiences flat bottom.. at which time, I see future Britain dumping the handle "Britain" for a new name, game, and theme, which will translate out to be "Island God".. Britain will dump royalty, in having realized its true value, and royalty's true value...

Claiming "Britain is a world military power" is like the flea floating down the river Thames, on its back, with an erection, crying-out, "Raise The Drawbridge!"...

[Major Grumbles]

The two planned British Queen Elizabeth-class carriers will not be carrying the Harrier but the planned F-35 Joint Stirke Fighter. (Source: British MoD Factsheet - Future Aircraft Carriers (CVF)).

planned being the appropriate word here. We'll maybe get two frigates and a mine hunter with the old tupperware bottom job!

[Cambridge]

I turn my back for a single moment and the childlike ‘my weapons are bigger than your weapons’ . starts up again.

Cambridge – The Harrier is not ASTOL (whatever that is). It is VSTOL (Vertical/Short Take-off and Landing). The F-35B is an ASTOVL (Advanced Short Take-off and Vertical Landing) aircraft.

Myron and Bobin – The Global Firepower website has some very strange figures in it, e.g. available military manpower seems to equate to the entire male population of each country, and what on earth do airports, railways, waterways, roadways and land area have to do with firepower?

Did neither of you read the note stating that:-
“Nuclear weapons, past and present military experience, training and equipment quality are NOT taken into account.”
As far as I am concerned, that makes the rankings meaningless.

Colonel – The new carriers will not be stealth, as you claimed, but the F-35 Lightning II aircraft do incorporate stealth technology derived from the F-22 Raptor.

Your ridiculous assertion that Britannia still rules the waves (as well as the rest of the world) shows that you live in a fantasy world, and that you have megalomaniac tendencies.

Myron’s comments have no content, so they need not be responded to. They are just a heap of “cow,” as distinct from “bull,” and have no consequence

As for your comments, Rebman, the Advanced Short Take Off and Landing (ASTOL) aircraft was pioneered by the Eagleton Institute at Rutgers University, years ago. It resulted in the Veritical Take Off and Landing (VTOL) aircraft, which eventually became the Harrier.

It is the arrogance of youth that they think they invented the whole universe. Some of us were around to teach your own mentors. You will be reminded of that when you get into your fifties and the kids below you start saying they invented computers.

[The Colonel]

I turn my back for a single moment and the childlike ‘my weapons are bigger than your weapons’ . starts up again.

Cambridge – The Harrier is not ASTOL (whatever that is). It is VSTOL (Vertical/Short Take-off and Landing). The F-35B is an ASTOVL (Advanced Short Take-off and Vertical Landing) aircraft.

Myron and Bobin – The Global Firepower website has some very strange figures in it, e.g. available military manpower seems to equate to the entire male population of each country, and what on earth do airports, railways, waterways, roadways and land area have to do with firepower?

Did neither of you read the note stating that:-
“Nuclear weapons, past and present military experience, training and equipment quality are NOT taken into account.”
As far as I am concerned, that makes the rankings meaningless.

Colonel – The new carriers will not be stealth, as you claimed, but the F-35 Lightning II aircraft do incorporate stealth technology derived from the F-22 Raptor.

Your ridiculous assertion that Britannia still rules the waves (as well as the rest of the world) shows that you live in a fantasy world, and that you have megalomaniac tendencies.

The carriers have been specifically designed to have a low radar cross section. This is the same with our new Daring Class Destroyers.

This means they can legitimately referred to as "stealth".

I know what you are likely to say - but this is an advantage that no US carrier or destroyer has.

[Major Grumbles]

I turn my back for a single moment and the childlike ‘my weapons are bigger than your weapons’ . starts up again.

Cambridge – The Harrier is not ASTOL (whatever that is). It is VSTOL (Vertical/Short Take-off and Landing). The F-35B is an ASTOVL (Advanced Short Take-off and Vertical Landing) aircraft.

Myron and Bobin – The Global Firepower website has some very strange figures in it, e.g. available military manpower seems to equate to the entire male population of each country, and what on earth do airports, railways, waterways, roadways and land area have to do with firepower?

Did neither of you read the note stating that:-
“Nuclear weapons, past and present military experience, training and equipment quality are NOT taken into account.”
As far as I am concerned, that makes the rankings meaningless.

Colonel – The new carriers will not be stealth, as you claimed, but the F-35 Lightning II aircraft do incorporate stealth technology derived from the F-22 Raptor.

Your ridiculous assertion that Britannia still rules the waves (as well as the rest of the world) shows that you live in a fantasy world, and that you have megalomaniac tendencies.

The carriers have been specifically designed to have a low radar cross section. This is the same with our new Daring Class Destroyers.

This means they can legitimately referred to as "stealth".

I know what you are likely to say - but this is an advantage that no US carrier or destroyer has.

Let's be realistic here - are these carriers actually going to happen?

[Cambridge]

Is this a realistic response? In warfare, if it can happen it will happen. In the war for the Falkland Islands, the British had to deploy three carriers. None of them were lost, while the Argentineans lost a major warship and most of their aircraft. These were Harrier aircraft carriers. Need I say more.

[cosmicB]

With a little lab I could build a plazma engine and cannon, and all one would need, to take out Britain's whole navy in just a minute, and America's in ten minutes, would be a 30-foot barge and three operators... In one day there couldn't be anymore wars, because all the militaries are vaporized, as in "gone to heaven.. and hell"...

The militaries of today are still based upon pyrotechnics..just basic fireworks.. igniten the gunpowder, and it goes kaboomah, and a chunk of pointy metal goes swhoosh, and makes an owie in someone's skin.. Your militaries of today would make Marco Polo proud, and nauseous...

[Bobin]

The carriers have been specifically designed to have a low radar cross section. This is the same with our new Daring Class Destroyers.

This means they can legitimately referred to as "stealth".

Did you ever hear of satellite reconnaissance ???

[Rebman]

As for your comments, Rebman, the Advanced Short Take Off and Landing (ASTOL) aircraft was pioneered by the Eagleton Institute at Rutgers University, years ago. It resulted in the Veritical Take Off and Landing (VTOL) aircraft, which eventually became the Harrier.

Cambridge - The Harrier was never classified as a VTOL aircraft. It was always a VSTOL aircraft. In normal service it rarely took-off vertically, but usually landed vertically. British aircraft classified as VTOL included the Rolls Royce “Flying Bedstead” and the Short SC1.

It is the arrogance of youth that they think they invented the whole universe. Some of us were around to teach your own mentors. You will be reminded of that when you get into your fifties and the kids below you start saying they invented computers.

As I got into my fifties a number of years ago now I somehow think that the “arrogance of youth” is something I cannot be accused of. Also, as I was heavily involved in the development of the Harrier aircraft, I almost certainly know considerably more about it than an American lawyer.

The carriers have been specifically designed to have a low radar cross section. This is the same with our new Daring Class Destroyers.

This means they can legitimately referred to as "stealth".

Colonel - As with the Typhoon, some reduction in radar cross-section does not mean that the carriers are stealth.

[The Colonel]

I turn my back for a single moment and the childlike ‘my weapons are bigger than your weapons’ . starts up again.

Cambridge – The Harrier is not ASTOL (whatever that is). It is VSTOL (Vertical/Short Take-off and Landing). The F-35B is an ASTOVL (Advanced Short Take-off and Vertical Landing) aircraft.

Myron and Bobin – The Global Firepower website has some very strange figures in it, e.g. available military manpower seems to equate to the entire male population of each country, and what on earth do airports, railways, waterways, roadways and land area have to do with firepower?

Did neither of you read the note stating that:-
“Nuclear weapons, past and present military experience, training and equipment quality are NOT taken into account.”
As far as I am concerned, that makes the rankings meaningless.

Colonel – The new carriers will not be stealth, as you claimed, but the F-35 Lightning II aircraft do incorporate stealth technology derived from the F-22 Raptor.

Your ridiculous assertion that Britannia still rules the waves (as well as the rest of the world) shows that you live in a fantasy world, and that you have megalomaniac tendencies.

The carriers have been specifically designed to have a low radar cross section. This is the same with our new Daring Class Destroyers.

This means they can legitimately referred to as "stealth".

I know what you are likely to say - but this is an advantage that no US carrier or destroyer has.

Let's be realistic here - are these carriers actually going to happen?

Are you blind or what?

The government has already paid for, and acquired, certain materials required, and has signed the contract to build them with BAE just days ago.

It is official. So, are you are blind, stupid, or just misinformed?

The construction will begin not very long from now.

[The Colonel]

[cosmicB]

It's all just people killing machinery...

For every bad guy that gets killed, at least ten innocents die too... plus war turns whole cultures into "collateral damage"...

Can anyone tell us what started this war..? I'm not talking "9/11".. What was the very first thing that started this war..?

Does anyone know what was the first shot fired in WW2..?

Does anyone know what was the first shot fired in each of the wars: Korea, V. Nam, WW1..??? And this one too..?

The most powerful nation would have the ability to put a stop to all the killing and wars... There aren't any strong enough to do that... They're all part of the wrong...

Conclusion: There aren't any powerful nations.. just a bunch of weaklings, with guns and bombs, and stealth people killing state of the art slaughtering technologies...

How can you silly critters possibly believe that a"god" cares for your rampant out of control murderous insanity..? Cuz you pray to it? even when you can't find it anywheres but in yourselves...

Trying to get you critters to see a little reality is like trying to pull your teeth through your rectums... Seems I gotta dig in all your shidt to find anythings you can relate to... And there's so much of it.. and it seems that's all there is to your core...

Conclusion: Not even nukes will wake you... We're Screwed!..