9/11 The Truth - We Have Been Deceived

Are the polititians doing a good job could you do better, debate your views with others
Nefarious
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Postby Nefarious on Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:54 pm

Here's a hold the phone:

Any time an aircraft deviates from it’s course, the air traffic controller requests a military intercept according to military response code 7610-4J. This was the first time interceptors were not sent up in the history of this policy...Planes were sent to the New York area, after unprecedented delay, from Falmouth, Massachusetts rather than nearby Ft. Dix or LaGuardia. Of course, they didn’t arrive in time - there was no visual scan of the cockpits....Furthermore, it’s a fact that Air Force One codes were known and punched in by a rogue source on 9/11

The above were points from a longer article I read, but if this is fact it is worrying indeed. How can not one, but four, rogue flights not be attended promptly? One rogue flight you might think - oh that's a bit slack - but four! Anyone should hit the panic button over that. From what I understand there was more than adequate time since the flights went rogue to scramble the planes to take them out. Why didn't this happen in the normal timely manner? And what is this about air force one codes!?!?! How the hell would a rag tag bunch of terrorist hijackers, who brought computer simulation games or whatever to learn how to fly, ever get access to such codes? There had to be inside collusion for that to happen.

The same article also pointed out that 5 of the supposed 'hijackers' are alive and well and wishing to have their names cleared!!?!?!?! I can't keep up with all of this!

Further, from the same article:

The seismic record from Columbia University’s observatory in Palisades, NY (21 miles away) provides indisputable proof that massive explosions brought down those towers. At the precise moment the South Tower began collapsing, a 2.1 earthquake registered on the seismograph. At the precise moment the North Tower began collapsing, a 2.3 earthquake registered; however, as the buildings started to crumble these waves disappeared. The two ‘spikes’on the seismograph, which both occurred at the exact instants the collapses began, are twenty times the amplitude, or more than 100 times the force of the other waves. If the buildings had simply collapsed, the largest jolts would have occurred when the massive debris struck the earth, not at the beginnings of the collapses. Seismologist Arthur Lerner-Lam of Columbia University stated, “Only a small fraction of the energy from the collapsing towers was converted into ground motion. The ground shaking that resulted from the collapse of the towers was extremely small.” In other words, the collapsing did not cause 2.1 and 2.3 magnitude earthquakes. Furthermore, a ‘sharp spike of short duration’ is how underground nuclear explosions register on seismographs. Underground explosions, where the steel columns meet Manhattans granite would account for both the demolition-style implosions and these ‘spikes’ on the seismograph. Another seismologist at the Palisades observatory, Won Young Kim said the 1993 truck bomb did not even register on their seismographs because the explosion was ‘not coupled’ to the ground. Imagine the magnitude of explosions it would take to register the two earthquakes, when the truck bomb didn’t even show up.

No mention of this is made in the Protec Documentation Services paper that I posted a link to earlier in this thread (the implosion world post). They claim they had their own seismologists in the vincinty at the time and noted no irregularities that would cause them to think a controlled demolition had taken place, but here are seismology readings from Columbia University giving different readings? What do you make of this?

I looked further into Protec Documentation Services - their website was incomplete in a number of places - there was not the evidence of their past history in all of the places it was meant to be - however, that is not evidence that they are not a credible business - a lot of businesses have websites that are not maintained to proper standard. What was interesting was that they listed Betchel Corp. as one of the companies they provided services to - although I could find no history listed elsewhere on the net about a relation between the two companies, even under the name Protec formely traded under (Asbestos Training Inst.). Betchel, of course, is one of the companies linked to Bush cronyism, who were awarded commissions in Iraq and also a non-open-tendered multi million dollar contract with the Katrina disaster. In both cases, if memory serves me right, Betchel has been criticized for taking a lot of money for not much evidential return on the investment in them. Is Protec a front, set up to legitimise and cover up or are they for real? The minute I think something has been served up that quashes my suspicions I come across something that brings them all back again.

Given the sheer amount of inconsistencies, not least that 5 of the supposed hijackers that were meant to die in these airplane crashes are alive and well, what are we left to credibly believe? Was there an assumption that people would just believe what they were told and not question it, and a genuine lack of understanding into just how easy it is to uncover such inconsistencies in the age of the web? Are we just Ct theorists with too much time on our hands, or is there something we should be questioning here?

The terrible thing about lying is that it is one thing to think out a reasonable lie to start with, but the thing about lies is that people ask you to elaborate on them to gain understanding - that's when you have to think on your feet - so lies build upon lies, and once that starts to happen it is only a matter of time before inconsistencies become transparent and the whole stack of cards falls down around you. That's not to say that I am like 'ok - this was all lies' - I won't close myself off to that conclusion just yet - there might be some credible return case - and I am open to that - it's just looking like a house of cards at the moment.

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Postby Guest on Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:27 pm

The towers collapsed the way they did because of the way they were designed. It wouldn't be very good design if they fell sideways would it? Designers of skyscrapers don't like their buildings falling sideways and the outer shell makes sure that isn't going to happen. You try bringing down a skyscraper without sending a plane into it to explode tons of aviation fuel inside it. You can't. You bring it down floor by floor using hundreds of iron workers or cut into supports to detonate timed charges. Someone chopping into support beams on every side and up and down a skyscraper is going to be noticed. Honest.

It was not "standard" practice to send fighters to escort every airplane that was off course and in fact the statements in that article show a terrible understanding of civil aviation and airspace control. Fighters would be scrambled if protected airspace was intruded on, maybe, if they had someone ready to fly. The aircraft would have a fine, a FAA report to fill out and possibly lose their license, but fighters didn't scramble everytime some aircraft went off it's IFR course.

As far as Bush having a role because some company that a friend works at did some work in Katrina and Iraq is like blaming me for the Bopal disaster because I company I own stock in bought some of the P&E of a company that built the chemical plant in India.

Nefarious
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Postby Nefarious on Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:54 am

. wrote:The towers collapsed the way they did because of the way they were designed. It wouldn't be very good design if they fell sideways would it? Designers of skyscrapers don't like their buildings falling sideways and the outer shell makes sure that isn't going to happen. You try bringing down a skyscraper without sending a plane into it to explode tons of aviation fuel inside it. You can't. You bring it down floor by floor using hundreds of iron workers or cut into supports to detonate timed charges. Someone chopping into support beams on every side and up and down a skyscraper is going to be noticed. Honest.

It was not "standard" practice to send fighters to escort every airplane that was off course and in fact the statements in that article show a terrible understanding of civil aviation and airspace control. Fighters would be scrambled if protected airspace was intruded on, maybe, if they had someone ready to fly. The aircraft would have a fine, a FAA report to fill out and possibly lose their license, but fighters didn't scramble everytime some aircraft went off it's IFR course.

As far as Bush having a role because some company that a friend works at did some work in Katrina and Iraq is like blaming me for the Bopal disaster because I company I own stock in bought some of the P&E of a company that built the chemical plant in India.


Ok - fine - but what about the use of the air force one codes? What's that all about?

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Postby Guest on Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:07 pm

Nefarious wrote:
Ok - fine - but what about the use of the air force one codes? What's that all about?


Are you suggesting that someone used the code for Airforce One illegally? Are you aware of what the two VC-25A planes, tail numbers 28000 and 29000 that the president uses special secret "code" is? It's "Airforce One" when he's on it... and the tail numbers when he's not on it.

If you have to have every GA and CA pilot know they just lost landing priority and every tower controller in the country know that they have to divert all traffic, you use a code everyone knows. If it's a secret then it's probably the best known secret in the world.

Sometimes I'm amazed at what passes as scholarship.

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Postby Guest on Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:04 pm

Incidently you don't "punch in" any codes when you are flying. The cockpit of a plane has enough buttons and lights in it without some encrypted nonsense installed in every tower just in case the President happens by. You talk to tower control on the correct published frequency for their tower. If they are busy the tower requests you change to an alternate frequency that has less traffic on it. You get into a standard pattern for the airport and land when your turn comes up.

Oh, there are many buttons and lights that tell you how the engine(s) are doing and to check what planes are around you, as well as what the weather is and you need to know where you are and what to say when you're asked for information, but it's not some mystery story like that article seems to think, it's just common sense ways to keep planes flying safely as cheaply as possible without endangering anyone and to get out of the way when an emergency happens, or the President happens to pass by.

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mogadishu
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Postby mogadishu on Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:47 pm

hmm. people tend to fixate on the fact jets weren't scrambled, but I imagine it's a difficult thing to do in an emergency. who's to say whether it was standard procedure to get have fighter jets intercept? who can disprove the idea that they tried to intercept and failed?

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Postby Guest on Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:08 pm

If you won't take my word for it go to the AOPA site and ask someone.
(Aircraft Owner and Pilots Association)

Scrambling jets assumes pilots are on duty with checklists completed and ready to fly covering all of the USA. It's a bad assumption. The USA was at peace and hadn't had an attack on it's airspace since WWII, Pearl Harbor was the last time I believe. There are about 50K aircraft flying everyday over US airspace and for the most part none of them are doing anything wrong.

The planes didn't go into restricted airspace (such as camp david or the whitehouse) which might get a fighter into the air. They just violated tracon airspace around the airports in NY without getting permission from the towers. This happens fairly often and wasn't anything to scramble a fighter jet over, yet. Fighters, even if they are scrambled can't shoot down a civilian aircraft without direct President approval anyway.

It wasn't until almost noon that even Airforce One had fighter cover. In other words the President of the United States was flying around for an hour before they could get a fighter up to guard his plane.

It appears that two fighters got into the air to go after the hijacked planes, but it was only minutes before the first plane hit the tower and with the transponder off on the hijacked plane the fighters (100+ miles away) couldn't have found the airplanes anyway.

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Postby Guest on Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:19 pm

. wrote:Incidently you don't "punch in" any codes when you are flying. The cockpit of a plane has enough buttons and lights in it without some encrypted nonsense installed in every tower just in case the President happens by. You talk to tower control on the correct published frequency for their tower. If they are busy the tower requests you change to an alternate frequency that has less traffic on it. You get into a standard pattern for the airport and land when your turn comes up.

Oh, there are many buttons and lights that tell you how the engine(s) are doing and to check what planes are around you, as well as what the weather is and you need to know where you are and what to say when you're asked for information, but it's not some mystery story like that article seems to think, it's just common sense ways to keep planes flying safely as cheaply as possible without endangering anyone and to get out of the way when an emergency happens, or the President happens to pass by.


Bullshit, even renault megans have an override code. youre telling me planes dont have codes. HA HA HA :lol:

Nefarious
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Postby Nefarious on Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:27 am

. wrote:
Nefarious wrote:
Ok - fine - but what about the use of the air force one codes? What's that all about?


Are you suggesting that someone used the code for Airforce One illegally? Are you aware of what the two VC-25A planes, tail numbers 28000 and 29000 that the president uses special secret "code" is? It's "Airforce One" when he's on it... and the tail numbers when he's not on it.

If you have to have every GA and CA pilot know they just lost landing priority and every tower controller in the country know that they have to divert all traffic, you use a code everyone knows. If it's a secret then it's probably the best known secret in the world.

Sometimes I'm amazed at what passes as scholarship.


I'm not suggesting anything - I was asking what the meaning was behind the following quote 'Furthermore, it’s a fact that Air Force One codes were known and punched in by a rogue source on 9/11'.

Nefarious
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Postby Nefarious on Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:37 am

. wrote:If you won't take my word for it go to the AOPA site and ask someone.
(Aircraft Owner and Pilots Association)

Scrambling jets assumes pilots are on duty with checklists completed and ready to fly covering all of the USA. It's a bad assumption. The USA was at peace and hadn't had an attack on it's airspace since WWII, Pearl Harbor was the last time I believe. There are about 50K aircraft flying everyday over US airspace and for the most part none of them are doing anything wrong.

The planes didn't go into restricted airspace (such as camp david or the whitehouse) which might get a fighter into the air. They just violated tracon airspace around the airports in NY without getting permission from the towers. This happens fairly often and wasn't anything to scramble a fighter jet over, yet. Fighters, even if they are scrambled can't shoot down a civilian aircraft without direct President approval anyway.

It wasn't until almost noon that even Airforce One had fighter cover. In other words the President of the United States was flying around for an hour before they could get a fighter up to guard his plane.

It appears that two fighters got into the air to go after the hijacked planes, but it was only minutes before the first plane hit the tower and with the transponder off on the hijacked plane the fighters (100+ miles away) couldn't have found the airplanes anyway.


What efforts were made to intercept the plane that hit the pentagon and also the one that crashed in PA?

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Postby Guest on Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:41 am

Between 9:03 and 9:37 a.m.: Defense Official at Pentagon Says, ‘We’re Next’

After the second WTC tower is hit, NBC News correspondent Jim Miklaszewski is heading down a hall inside the Pentagon when he runs into a Defense Department official. The official says he doesn’t yet know anything specific about the attack. But, he says, it is so coordinated that “[i]f I were you I would stay off the E-ring [the outermost corridor of the Pentagon] today, because we’re next.” According to Miklaszewski, the official had no specific information, “that was just his gut instinct.” [Gilbert et al., 2002, pp. 43]

Instinct is a handy thing.

Guest
 

Postby Guest on Fri Jan 05, 2007 2:58 pm

Nefarious wrote:What efforts were made to intercept the plane that hit the pentagon and also the one that crashed in PA?


Planes were scrambled, but were over 300 miles away. Although a F15 can go a couple of times the speed of sound, it's only for short bursts in combat situations. Cruising speed is only a fraction of combat speed. Afterburners suck fuel so fast you need a computer to keep the fuel tanks from going dry or making the plane so unbalanced it's uncontrollable.

You still can't shoot down a civilian plane without Presidential approval... and a lot of luck that the plane isn't going to plow into a shopping mall.

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Postby Guest on Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:07 pm

Nefarious wrote:I'm not suggesting anything - I was asking what the meaning was behind the following quote 'Furthermore, it’s a fact that Air Force One codes were known and punched in by a rogue source on 9/11'.


An idiot speaks nonsense about something he doesn't understand?
(Not you, I'm answering your question about the meaning of that quote.)

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Postby Guest on Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:20 pm

. wrote:Bullshit, even renault megans have an override code. youre telling me planes dont have codes. HA HA HA :lol:


All your base are belong to us!

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Postby Guest on Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:46 pm

. wrote:The towers collapsed the way they did because of the way they were designed. It wouldn't be very good design if they fell sideways would it? Designers of skyscrapers don't like their buildings falling sideways and the outer shell makes sure that isn't going to happen. You try bringing down a skyscraper without sending a plane into it to explode tons of aviation fuel inside it. You can't. You bring it down floor by floor using hundreds of iron workers or cut into supports to detonate timed charges. Someone chopping into support beams on every side and up and down a skyscraper is going to be noticed. Honest.

It was not "standard" practice to send fighters to escort every airplane that was off course and in fact the statements in that article show a terrible understanding of civil aviation and airspace control. Fighters would be scrambled if protected airspace was intruded on, maybe, if they had someone ready to fly. The aircraft would have a fine, a FAA report to fill out and possibly lose their license, but fighters didn't scramble everytime some aircraft went off it's IFR course.

As far as Bush having a role because some company that a friend works at did some work in Katrina and Iraq is like blaming me for the Bopal disaster because I company I own stock in bought some of the P&E of a company that built the chemical plant in India.


.......and explosives can be seen on varying levels exploding as the building falls. watch some of the footage captured by citizens instead of believing the official story all the time. 8)

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