Too old to wear knee socks to school?

UK Parenting section

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Winifred I
 

Gingham dress and cardigan uniform for punishment

Postby Winifred I on Tue Sep 30, 2008 5:08 am

Mary

I do not think that we have suffered in quite the same way - whilst I was severely punished this was always as a result of failing to comply with the standards and rules my parents’ set. In your case it sounds like you were made to wear a lower school uniform for an additional year for no particular reason so you have my sympathy. I was always provided with the appropriate school uniform (even though strict) by my parents for the Church school I attended and as a result was not routinely subjected to the type of peer pressure you no doubt encountered. This was of course why I stood out even more on the occasion when I was made to appear in public in my punishment school uniform.

I only ever received corporal punishment in addition to wearing of school punishment uniform (and other punishments) as it was only applied for serious misbehavior or repetition of wrong doing. In all cases the procedure was the same having been assigned corporal punishment. I would, if the application was to be given in my bedroom, have to wait standing in my punishment uniform for my father and/or mother to arrive with whatever the device to be used was. I was then chastised for my misbehaviour again and made to apologise. My parents would then restate the punishment. If it was to be applied to my hands I would then hold out my hand left palm upwards and supported by my right hand. The relevant number of strokes with either the slipper or strap were then applied. The routine was then repeated to the right hand. If the punishment was to be applied to my behind I had to undo my waistcoat/cardigan(s) and then bend over and touch my toes with my legs straight. My dress was then lifted. If misbehavior had been serious the long green knickers were sometimes lowered to the knees and the punishment applied to the bare behind. My father/mother then applied the punishment strokes using a slipper or very occasionally a cane. On some occasions when the school uniform assigned was a Gingham dress and cardigan my sisters or I were made to bend over one of my parent’s laps’ and then punishment was administered as a hand spanking and/or using a hairbrush (again either with or without knickers depending on the extent of misbehavior) to the behind and backs of the legs. This was to underline the disciplining as being for behavior deemed to be infantile in character. At the end of the punishment you had to thank the person who had punished you and affirm that you had deserved the punishment. This was normally then followed by corner time, typically of about one hour, stood with hands on head. When the punishment was to the bare behind knickers were left around ones’ knees to underline the humiliation. Normally any such corporal punishment was administered in my bedroom but again if severe punishment was assigned it was occasionally performed in the dining room in front of my sisters (as were similar punishments which they earned). These punishments were thankfully rare and of course both painful and exceedingly humiliating. In these cases the procedures were the same if even more humiliating.

On the last occasion when I earned a disciplining requiring me to dress in a green Gingham dress and green round necked woollen school cardigan for ten days during the Xmas vacation because my exam results at the start of my second year at university were below standard I received a spanking in front of my sisters with the hairbrush. Even at that age the pain was till intense enough to leave me crying even without the humiliation of being treated like an infant. Suffice to say I ensure my exam result improved even further and I successfully completed my studies and have now secured a good job.

Mary24
 

Punishment and uniform

Postby Mary24 on Sun Oct 05, 2008 9:29 pm

Winifred,

I agree we did not suffer in the same way and my uniform was certainly not a punishment uniform like yours. I was subject to other punishments for misdemeanors which involved smacking up to the age of almost 15 usually combined with ā€œgroundingā€ and extra chores.

I’m not sure if I could have taken the type of punishment uniforms you were subject to in public, I think I would have cried continuously if I had had to go out in your uniforms, the humiliation must have been unbearable. How frequent were these uniform punishments and how old were you when your parents finally stopped?

I think the punishment uniforms you wore were more than sufficient punishment for any offence I can possibly think of so why did your parents insist on physical punishments? I have never been physically punished other than very rare slipperings up to the age of about 9 and those were severe enough to reduce me to rears. I have never had anything like a strap which must be horribly painful particularly on the bare bottom.

I was amazed that physical punishment was used but particularly aghast at the use of a hand spanking over your parents knee. This would be horrendous treatment for an early teenager but you say this was applied for poor exam results at university when you must have been nearly 20 years old! I have to say that if my parents had made me wear a junior girls gingham dress at 20 I would have walked out and gone back to university halls. Its bad enough that this punishment was carried out at all let alone in front of your sisters, how old were they and did they receive similar punishments?

I was intrigued by your reference to long green knickers – why were they long? Were they bloomer or directoire style? I had previously thought you were made to wear standard school briefs with high waist and full seat but those enormous knickers must surely had hung below the hem of your gingham dress as most summer dresses are quite short at mid thigh length.

What type of school did you go to? Was it a church school or a private school? What was your standard school uniform?

How long ago did all this occur?

Nice to hear from you again and sorry for the delay in replying, I’ve been away visiting relatives for a wedding.


Mary

Judith T
 

My further disciplining

Postby Judith T on Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:13 am

My Aunt has instructed me as part of my punishment and as an example to others to explain my most recent misbehavior, the punishment I received for it and the future restrictions I have received. I am aware that she indicated the nature of my offence to you a couple of weeks ago but I will begin by specifying this and the circumstances again. I am typing this into the system as a copy of the handwritten 5 side essay I had to complete as part of my disciplining. I am adding only an additional request which my Aunt has proscribed to the end of this message.

As you know from my earlier posting I was, following a 3 month period of punishment, being disciplined as part of an ongoing behavioural improvement plan by my Aunt. I was subject to several restrictions some of which were being removed over time as I demonstrated my ability to behave in an appropriate manner. The restrictions were:

No trousers to be worn in future. Only skirts/blouses and dresses longer than knee length and with long sleeves to be worn. Any additional clothing items to be cardigans, waistcoats and/or jumpers. My clothing to be specified by my Aunt and then to be allowed further independent choice with time. The items to be chosen from the limited wardrobe I now have. Items to be worn buttoned up at all times.

No jewelry or make-up to be worn by me.

Hair to be worn in a bun or ponytail at all times.

Initially to be grounded except when going to work. With good behavior to be allowed freedom to be out of the house up to a curfew time of 8:00 PM Sun-Thurs and 7:00 PM Fri-Sat

I am to remain responsible for the forseeable future for all housework.

To be allowed to watch approved TV programmes up to a limit with amount increasing based on good behaviour.

I will devote some of my spare time as decided by my Aunt to lessons she provides to me in dressmaking and knitting enabling me to produce my own clothes.

Just over 3 months into my behavioural improvement plan period. I was being allowed freedom to the new 8PM curfew on Mon-Thurs but was still grounded on Fri, Sat, Sun. On Saturdays I was still confined to my bedroom when not performing housework or on the occasions when my Aunt had sent me to stand against a wall/in a corner with my hands on my head as a reminder that I still had much work to do to earn myself fulltime relief from schoolgirl type punishments. In my sewing and knitting lessons my Aunt had shown me basic techniques and had then got me to employ these to make in turn a green Gingham dress in my size and knit a pair of green woollen knickers and a brown woollen round neck cardigan. In all cases these activities were conducted in what otherwise would have been my own spare time. Of course as I obviously had no desire to wear these items my available wardrobe remained limited to the plain items provided to me at the start of my original punishment.

Just over two weeks ago on a Saturday I had been sent to my room. Both because it was warm and because of my own indiscipline and stupidity and with every knowledge I was breaking my Aunt’s rules I undid the top button of my grey blouse and unbuttoned my grey cardigan. My Aunt had been in my room only a few minutes earlier as part of her routine inspection process and I had as usual been made to stand whilst she ensured I was dressed appropriately my skirt seams straight, ankle socks pulled up and straight and of course all of my blouse and cardigan buttons correctly done up. I was also therefore guilty of assuming that I could do this and not be caught and punished – something which my Aunt noted when allocating my punishment. Anyway my Aunt returned to my room unexpectedly and observed me with my buttons undone. As stated unbuttoned clothing is not permitted according to the rules and her reaction was immediate. I was forced to take of my cardigan, and then my skirt and blouse so that all of my clothing including knickers and socks could be subject to inspection. She then instructed me to redress and to go downstairs to the dining room where I could be easily observed and stand facing the far corner of the room with my hands on my head. I was told to consider my actions and what should be done to me to punish my misbehavior and prevent a repeat of such disobedience. It was clear to me that I was to be severely chastised. I then stood hands on head for about 2 hours before my Aunt arrived and told me to turn around, stand to attention, hands behind my back and ready to be disciplined. She told me that my behavior was unacceptable and that although I may have thought this was a trivial issue I was about to find out that under the new conditions any failure in obedience would have severe consequences. I was being punished for failure of clothing inspection, disobedience and trying to avoid punishment. She asked me if I had anything to say for myself. I apologised and promised that I did not need any further punishment to be clear of the lessons to be learnt. She said this was not correct that I needed to learn how to be completely obedient and the consequences of failing to do so and proceeded to specify my punishments:

Wear a school uniform much of which I had made myself - green Gingham dress, green woollen knickers, white ankle socks and brown round necked woollen cardigan.

All my work clothing to be worn to be specified again by my Aunt.

Corner time every day including at all times on Saturday when I might previously have been sent to my room.

Frequent clothing inspection – including regular humiliation of being stripped to knickers and socks and further punishment to be applied for any failures no matter how small e.g. sock ribbing not being straight, etc..

Corporal punishment 4 strokes of the strap to each hand to be administered on Sunday afternoon at 3 PM so that I had time to suffer the discomfort of thinking about being strapped.

Grounded except for going to work – to be at home no later than 6:00PM.

No TV and no supper.

Bed time 8 PM

To stand to attention at all times when confined to my room to minimize potential for further uniform failures.

Punishment to last for two weeks.

With this I was send back upstairs where I stripped and dressed in my infant’s school uniform under my Aunt’s oversight. I then had to stand to attention in the centre of the room and was left there. It was still very warm and I quickly realised the discomfort of the woollen knickers I had been consigned to. The thick elastics I had inserted into the waist band and leg holes bit into my skin through the rough and irritating wool. Over the next two weeks I was to grow to understand their usefulness not just as a method of humiliation but also discomfort punishment. Eventually after making supper and doing some ironing I was sent to bed at 8 PM. The Sunday passed slowly and even the humiliation of being made to serve coffee to my Aunt and our next door neighbor in my uniform passed as I thought of the corporal punishment I was to receive. After lunch I was inspected by my Aunt, having to remove my cardigan and dress completely in the process. You really are left in no doubt of your place when dressed as a schoolgirl you are made obediently to take-off your uniform as instructed, having to return stood to attention after each activity and then having to respond obediently to questions and observations. I was then sent again to the corner of the dining room where I stood hands on head until 3 PM. My Aunt then entered carrying a short leather strap about1 cm thick. Her instructions followed and I choked back my fear as my strapping approached. I was ordered to remove my cardigan. I was directed to hold out my left hand palm-up and prepared to receive my assigned strapping. My Aunt reminded me of the rules for application of corporal punishment. 1) You will not move during punishment. 2) You will not squeal or cry loudly 3) You will count each stroke in the manner, one thank-you Maam, two thank-you Maam and so on. 4) When the strokes stop you will remain in the position you have been placed in until told to move, 5) When told the beating is complete you will thank your punisher in the manner, ā€œI thoroughly deserved those [number of] strokes of the strap because of my misbehaviour. Thank-you Sir/Maam. Failure to comply with any of these will result in additional strokes and being placed on report for failure to accept punishment. Is that clear to you schoolgirl?ā€ She then pushed my dress sleeve up my arm so that it was bare from finger tip to elbow and then promptly began the application.
ā€œOne thank-you Maamā€, two thank-you Maam, three thank-you Maam, four thank-you Maamā€. Next my right palm. She struck the full length of the target with the tails biting into the flesh of my arm just before the elbow. I winced as I counted the strokes. ā€œFive thank-you Maam, six thank-you Maam, seven thank-you Maam, eight thank-you Maam.ā€ I was told to stand both palms outstretched. Finally she said ā€œYour strapping is complete girlā€. ā€œI thoroughly deserved those 8 strokes of the strap because of my unacceptable behaviour. Thank-you Maamā€. I then spent 60 painful minutes with my throbbing hands on top of my head facing the corner in the hall and weeping quietly to myself.
The next two weeks were as humiliating and punishing as I am sure you can imagine from my predicament. This was made all the more so because I could have avoided this if I had obeyed the rules – something which my Aunt reminded me of constantly. The wearing of school uniform was deeply humiliating and as I came home from work every night I shuddered at the thought of how I was to have to dress myself. My Aunt was unforgiving in her choice of clothing for work frequently sending me in dress or skirt and blouse together with two cardigans to be worn all day and in addition my large arran woollen jacket to walk to work in. I spent many hours reflecting on my stupidity both stood to attention in my room and in room corners with my hands on my head. I may be 20 but I felt like I was 9 which is of course exactly what my punishment was made to do. After 14 days during which I did everything to be compliant I was made to stand before my Aunt again. She spent the first 30 minutes chastising me again for my misbehavior and how she hoped that the punishment I had received would have been sufficient to deter any such future behavior. I promised her that this was the case. She responded that she had heard this before and therefore she had decided that the terms of my behavioural improvement plan were to be amended both in terms of likely final point and conditions whilst I reached that point. The new aiming points were as follows:

No trousers. Only skirts/blouses and dresses - longer than knee length and with long sleeves. Always to be worn with a minimum of one cardigan at all times.

No jewelry or make-up.

Hair to be worn in a bun at all times.

Curfew at 7:30 PM Sun-Thurs, 7:00 PM Fri-Sat

All housework to be performed by me.

Limited TV (maximum of 3 hours total per week) and only with her approval of content.

All other spare time to be spent in my room dressmaking and knitting to enable me to produce a further complete infant’s school uniform set, a further complete Junior school uniform set and additional work clothing for myself. In addition following her reading of this I am to knit a pair of thumbless mitts.

Every other Saturday to be spent in school uniform as a reminder of the consequences of disobedience.

If I behave appropriately over the next 6 months then my Aunt says she will revise some aspects of this but clearly not all. She also told me I was to first hand write a document outlining misbehaviour, punishment and revised conditions which I would then have to type into the intranet for public display. I can assure you that as well as hopefully providing some information for others wishing to discipline poorly behaving girls that having to do this has been a very salutatory experience for myself. I ask you not to feel pity for me as I was stupid enough to fail to behave correctly and thoroughly deserve the resulting penances no matter how severe they are. I apologise to you all if this is a misuse of this area but in this case I must obey the instructions my Aunt has given me if anyone can suggest a more appropriate location to display my humiliation please let us know as my Aunt informs me that she would be happy to have to repeat this exercise. In addition my Aunt has warned me that if I again fail to behave in any way that even more severe consequences will follow including public display in school uniform as this appeared to be one of the most severe and effective punishments imposed on someone else who contributed to this site.

In addition my Aunt has proscribed that if anyone has additional punishments or humiliations which could be used as part of my current behavioural plan or of a future punishment please describe these and be assured that they will be considered.

Judith

Lorretta
 

White socks

Postby Lorretta on Sat Oct 11, 2008 2:58 pm

My dad made me wear white socks all the time to my eighteenth birthday to stop me getting big ideas and going into pubs underage. I had to wear flat shoes with a strap or kiddies sandals so I looked younger than my years. Once when I was 17 I went into a pub with a girlfriend who was wearing tights and high heels but they wouldnt serve me as they said I looked so much underage. I never tried again until I was 18.

Up to I left home at 23 Dad would make me wear white socks at weekends as a punishment if I misbehaved. I hated it but it kept me out of trouble.

Guest
 

Avoiding future punishment

Postby Guest on Mon Oct 13, 2008 1:19 am

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1970's Kid
 

Office Juniors

Postby 1970's Kid on Tue Oct 14, 2008 5:22 pm

Experienced Mother,

I remember when you described your two work colleagues who were office juniors back in the early ā€˜70’s. Those two young women would have been regarded as minors by their parents and would have not been allowed to exercise many of the legal rights that were available to those past the statutory school leaving age. You said the older of the two was wearing socks until she was almost 19, and had the added humiliation of seeing her younger colleague come to work in tights when she had attained the age of majority (18). Both these girls, especially the older one, could have been easily forced to remain in socks until they were 21, which was the age of majority until 1970 in the UK. If I had been the manager of either of these girls I would have probably kept them on the most junior grades in the office (with the lowest rates of pay), regardless of the quality of work they produced, and be more likely to promote staff who wore grown up work attire even if they were younger. To me the girls’ appearance would have indicated they were weak (as they could not persuade their own parents they should be treated as adults) and regarded as subordinates.

Regarding some of the more recent postings I am not convinced their stories are true!

Victoria Wales
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Parents Control Over Their Children's Dress

Postby Victoria Wales on Tue Oct 14, 2008 9:17 pm

I am quite interested in the broader question of this topic--that is the parents control over how their children dress. Coming from across the pond in California, I find it difficult to adequately describe how poorly and inappropriate school children are allowed to dress. I am an enthusiastic advocate of strong parental control over their children's dress in and outside of school. I believe that this control should continue even over somewhat older children including any children living at home. I particularly enjoyed reading the posts of ElenWhit who in my view strikes the correct balance of appropriate strictness and also a deliberated upon view of not causing undue difficulties for the child.

There should be a clear understanding of the parents authority. Dress rules should be clearly enunciated and enforced.

Victoria

Experienced Mother
 

Re: Office Juniors

Postby Experienced Mother on Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:23 pm

1970's Kid wrote:Experienced Mother,

I remember when you described your two work colleagues who were office juniors back in the early ā€˜70’s. Those two young women would have been regarded as minors by their parents and would have not been allowed to exercise many of the legal rights that were available to those past the statutory school leaving age. You said the older of the two was wearing socks until she was almost 19, and had the added humiliation of seeing her younger colleague come to work in tights when she had attained the age of majority (18). Both these girls, especially the older one, could have been easily forced to remain in socks until they were 21, which was the age of majority until 1970 in the UK. If I had been the manager of either of these girls I would have probably kept them on the most junior grades in the office (with the lowest rates of pay), regardless of the quality of work they produced, and be more likely to promote staff who wore grown up work attire even if they were younger. To me the girls’ appearance would have indicated they were weak (as they could not persuade their own parents they should be treated as adults) and regarded as subordinates.

Regarding some of the more recent postings I am not convinced their stories are true!


I don't think these two girls were kept back because they were kept in white socks by their parents. Even if they had worn tights they would still have been office juniors and treated accordingly.

It seems unfair to me that they should have been discriminated against because of the way they were forced to dress by their parents but I accept that if a young woman was dressed this way the other staff, even if younger, may treat her as a subordinate despite being on the same level. Being dressed in a childish fashion would make it difficult for such an employee to exert authority over other members of staff who were dressed as adults and so promotion beyond the lowest level of office junior could be a problem.

Lorretta does not say if this happened to her when she continued to wear white socks as a shop assistant. Did she have to report to a younger girl who wore tights and more adult clothes?

I accept your point that keeping someone in childish clothes makes it very difficult for that person to be taken seriously as an adult and there must be a tendency of others to regard them as very junior. I am not convinced it means that the two girls were weak because they "allowed" their parents to keep them dressed in socks. Some parents can be extremely domineering and strict and their children are forced to obey.

Experienced Mother
 

Re: Parents Control Over Their Children's Dress

Postby Experienced Mother on Wed Oct 15, 2008 12:57 pm

Victoria Wales wrote:I am quite interested in the broader question of this topic--that is the parents control over how their children dress. Coming from across the pond in California, I find it difficult to adequately describe how poorly and inappropriate school children are allowed to dress. I am an enthusiastic advocate of strong parental control over their children's dress in and outside of school. I believe that this control should continue even over somewhat older children including any children living at home. I particularly enjoyed reading the posts of ElenWhit who in my view strikes the correct balance of appropriate strictness and also a deliberated upon view of not causing undue difficulties for the child.

There should be a clear understanding of the parents authority. Dress rules should be clearly enunciated and enforced.

Victoria


Hi Victoria,

Welcome to the discussion. You raise an interesting point. Namely, should parental control over children's dress - and other matters - continue while a child remains living at home, perhaps even if he or she is legally an adult. This is a topic I have seen discussed on other sites and it often brings out diverse opinions varying from parents maintaining absolute authority to the adult children having complete freedom to dress and do as they as like. Personally I can see arguments in favour of both although a lot depends on the maturity of the child. Some 16 year olds are far more grown up in their behaviour and attitudes than a 20 year old and should consequently be treated and allowed to dress in a more adult way. Conversely, an immature 20 year old may benefit by being treated and dressed in a more childish way. I have met 25 year olds who acted like 12 year olds and 15 year olds who were perfectly at ease in adult company and with adult conversation.

Would be interested to hear your views.

1970's Kid
 

Office Juniors in Kneesocks

Postby 1970's Kid on Wed Oct 15, 2008 1:54 pm

Experienced Mother

Thanks for your reply. The position I am coming from is if I was their manager/supervisor I would have found it very difficult to promote these two office juniors whilst they were still in socks. I am not sure they would be in a position to exert the authority asked of them. It must have been very tempting for some one on the same level as them to treat them as a subordinate, and similarly being subject to authoritative parents probably meant the girls obeyed orders and instructions without question. If the office juniors were working together as a group, I could see these girls getting the more mundane/less interesting tasks to do.

The older of the two girls must have had a difficult four months, after the time the younger of the two girls had been allowed tights as soon as she reached eighteen. She must have wondered how much longer she had to wear socks, and probably had fears that it could have been as late as twenty one (the traditional coming of age). Imagine what that would have been like!

Outside the office they must have seen countless school girls wearing tights, some a lot younger than they were, and this in particular must have been uneasy for them. I can also remember a few harsh winters back in the 1970’s and having to go bare legged with just knee socks must have been very uncomfortable.

Experienced Mother
 

Re: Office Juniors in Kneesocks

Postby Experienced Mother on Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:44 pm

1970's Kid wrote:Experienced Mother

Thanks for your reply. The position I am coming from is if I was their manager/supervisor I would have found it very difficult to promote these two office juniors whilst they were still in socks. I am not sure they would be in a position to exert the authority asked of them. It must have been very tempting for some one on the same level as them to treat them as a subordinate, and similarly being subject to authoritative parents probably meant the girls obeyed orders and instructions without question. If the office juniors were working together as a group, I could see these girls getting the more mundane/less interesting tasks to do.

The older of the two girls must have had a difficult four months, after the time the younger of the two girls had been allowed tights as soon as she reached eighteen. She must have wondered how much longer she had to wear socks, and probably had fears that it could have been as late as twenty one (the traditional coming of age). Imagine what that would have been like!

Outside the office they must have seen countless school girls wearing tights, some a lot younger than they were, and this in particular must have been uneasy for them. I can also remember a few harsh winters back in the 1970’s and having to go bare legged with just knee socks must have been very uncomfortable.


I agree it must have been difficult for the older girl to have to remain in white socks after her younger colleague went into tights and I also agree that neither girl could expect to be promoted while still wearing socks. I would not have put my daughter through this. If parents want their child to remain in socks when all other girls around them are in tights they should do what others have suggested on this forum. That is let them wear tights for school or work and have them change into their white socks when they get home. Both these girls could have been kept in socks all the time away from the office but allowed tights for work.

Still, this was a long time ago and it is unlikely to happen now (Lorreta's case excepted). There were undoubtedly a few parents up to the 1970s who made their daughters wear white socks through to their late teens or even to 21 which as you say was the age of majority up to 1970. If some of the posts on this forum are to be believed then there are still parents who use it as a punishment for young women in their 20s.

Victoria Wales
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Parents Control Over Their Children's Dress

Postby Victoria Wales on Wed Oct 15, 2008 7:19 pm

Thank you Experienced Mother for your post.

I am firmly on the side of parents maintaining authority over their children living with them whether or not the children technically are of the age of majority. For relatively younger children (those under the age of majority) irrespective of whether they appear to behave in an adult manner should, in my opinion, have dress rules and standards appropriate for under-age children. Then after a live at home child reaches the age of majority, dress standards and rules may be based upon the actual maturity and demonstrated responsibility of that child regardless of chronological age. Thus, an 18 year old may be dressed in a more adult manner than a 22 year old. Indeed, this can become an incentive for the child to behave more responsibly and appropriately. I am not at all adverse to the parent utilizing dress requirements as a method of disciplinary and control. In any case, I believe that the child should at all times maintain basic standards of dress.

I am interested in learning where I may be able to see more discussions of this and similar topics. I would appreciate learning more of your and others’ views.

Victoria

Jilly J
 

Control over Child Dress

Postby Jilly J on Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:43 am

Hi,

I couldn't agree more with your messages Victoria. To me there are at least 3 important strands:

1) Parents should control what their children wear.
2) Children should wear an appropriate uniform for school as this sets appropriate standards and avoids issues between pupils. This should be sensible and for girls I think what Winifred outlined as her normal school uniform is very sensible. Having lived for a while in the US I can confirm that standards of school dress are even worse than here in the UK.
3) Use of alternative age uniform as a punsihment together with other disciplining is an option. It is clear from all of these posts that both from the point of view of those who have received such punishments and those who have applied them they appear without exception to have been very effective. I am not sure if some of the posts are real but you may be surprised how many parents use this approach (I know 2 other mothers as well as myself who have done so). I have to admit we have used this occassionally with all 3 of our daughters and with the required effects. They are now aged 13-18 but whenever they have had to spend a few days wearing ankle socks, a green gingham dress and purple cardigan with their hair in pig tails and with a few other appropriate restrictions they have all been subsequently on their best behaviour.


Jilly

Experienced Mother
 

Re: Parents Control Over Their Children's Dress

Postby Experienced Mother on Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:13 am

Victoria Wales wrote:Thank you Experienced Mother for your post.

I am firmly on the side of parents maintaining authority over their children living with them whether or not the children technically are of the age of majority. For relatively younger children (those under the age of majority) irrespective of whether they appear to behave in an adult manner should, in my opinion, have dress rules and standards appropriate for under-age children. Then after a live at home child reaches the age of majority, dress standards and rules may be based upon the actual maturity and demonstrated responsibility of that child regardless of chronological age. Thus, an 18 year old may be dressed in a more adult manner than a 22 year old. Indeed, this can become an incentive for the child to behave more responsibly and appropriately. I am not at all adverse to the parent utilizing dress requirements as a method of disciplinary and control. In any case, I believe that the child should at all times maintain basic standards of dress.

I am interested in learning where I may be able to see more discussions of this and similar topics. I would appreciate learning more of your and others’ views.

Victoria


Hello Victoria,

In principle I think you are absolutely correct. Parents should have the right to impose appropriate discipline and control over their adult children if they remain living at home. However, it is a question of degree and what is appropriate. What happens in the privacy of the home is for the parents to decide. Making an adult child wear clothing more suited to a much younger age group is humiliating but can be highly effective, as can be corporal punishment, but parents need to be sensitive to what others outside of the home might think. Taking a 22 year old girl or boy out in public dressed like a five year old would usually be unacceptable but they may be seen by selected visitors to the home as an added humiliation especially if this includes much younger children who would be guaranteed to tease them. I said to 1970's Kid that I would not have made an 18 year old daughter of mine go to work in white socks (as happened in the insurance office in which I worked) but I see nothing wrong with parents making her wear white socks around the house.

Then there is the question of the clothing itself. Lorretta says she was punished by her parents up to the age of 23 by being made to wear white socks, childish dresses and hair ribbon presumably including for her work in the shop (although she does not specify this). If it made her look much younger it may not have been too bad as she would not have looked out of place but if she was a tall well built young lady then dressed like this would have made her look ridiculous. I assume she looked younger as she comments that customers to the shop asked her age as they thought she was too young to be working.

The same with corporal punishment. Parents should be able to administer this to adult children in the home as required but I would not advocate a parent lifting the back of the skirt and slapping the legs of a 25 year old daughter in the shopping mall if she misbehaves.

I cannot give you any specific websites that cover this topic as I have not kept their names. However there are many that address the treatment of adult children who remain living at home and I suggest you carry out a Google search.

Would be nice to hear from you again.

Elaine

Victoria Wales
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Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:51 pm

Re: Control over Child Dress

Postby Victoria Wales on Thu Oct 16, 2008 7:45 pm

Jilly J wrote:Hi,

I couldn't agree more with your messages Victoria. To me there are at least 3 important strands:

1) Parents should control what their children wear.
2) Children should wear an appropriate uniform for school as this sets appropriate standards and avoids issues between pupils. This should be sensible and for girls I think what Winifred outlined as her normal school uniform is very sensible. Having lived for a while in the US I can confirm that standards of school dress are even worse than here in the UK.
3) Use of alternative age uniform as a punsihment together with other disciplining is an option. It is clear from all of these posts that both from the point of view of those who have received such punishments and those who have applied them they appear without exception to have been very effective. I am not sure if some of the posts are real but you may be surprised how many parents use this approach (I know 2 other mothers as well as myself who have done so). I have to admit we have used this occassionally with all 3 of our daughters and with the required effects. They are now aged 13-18 but whenever they have had to spend a few days wearing ankle socks, a green gingham dress and purple cardigan with their hair in pig tails and with a few other appropriate restrictions they have all been subsequently on their best behaviour.


Jilly


Jilly, I wholeheartedly agree with all three points you make and I believe these form an excellent framework for appropriate parental control over a child's dress (including for older children) . First there is parental control over the child's dress; Second, there is the child's dress standards for normal situations; and Third, there are disciplinary uses of alternate age uniforms. Excellent.

I would likie to inquire, whether now that your oldest is 18 years old, do you plan to continue having control in the above three ways over her dress and uniforms; and if so, for how much longer. I am also interested in what the other appropriate restrictions consist of. Is your disciplinary uniform for your children worn outside the house?

Thank you for your informative post.

Victoria

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