A pregnant woman is murdered...

[ZiaAries]

A pregnant women is murdered. Should the murderer be convicted of one death or two?

[none of the above]

Two lives were lost so theoretically it's two I guess, but I'm not sure how the legal side of it goes. I think it should have more penalty than for someone not pregnant perhaps.

It depends how far along she is I suppose... the woman might, if early in pregnancy have had the life ended without being convicted of a crime.

[H. Franklin Layne]

I'm assuming the fetus also died. If so, then then two counts of murder should be charged. Of course, that depends on a particular state's definition of "person." Sometimes, unborn fetus' aren't considered an actual person until they are identifiable as a human form, and not a cluster of multiplying cells. It should also be either a capital offense, or mandatory life on both counts. No parole. Then again, I think the same thing about white collar crime. Crack the whip on some of these cretins.....

[blondebimbo]

Does the murderer know the woman is pregnant?

[Julie-Anne]

Depends on the jurisdiction, I guess. Here in Ireland, abortion is illegal, so he would definitely be convicted of 2 murders.

[Who?]

But surely murder is killing somebody with intent. Therefore it would depend whether the killer knew she was pregnant or not? (as I think Blondie was alluding to). If he knew, it should be two, if not I would imagine one?

Edit - legally I'm not sure whether an unborn child qualifies as a life? It ought to morally, to but I'm not sure whether it does?

[Lucylastic]

legally I'm not sure whether an unborn child qualifies as a life? It ought to morally, to but I'm not sure whether it does?

It will vary by jurisdiction but in areas where abortion is legal there would have to be a consideration of whether another crime was being committed concurrently, eg assault on the mother. In some areas the foetus is not recognised legally as an individual until it is separated from the mother and until then there would be only one murder in Zia's example.

[blondebimbo]

But surely murder is killing somebody with intent. Therefore it would depend whether the killer knew she was pregnant or not? (as I think Blondie was alluding to). If he knew, it should be two, if not I would imagine one?

Edit - legally I'm not sure whether an unborn child qualifies as a life? It ought to morally, to but I'm not sure whether it does?

It is what I was alluding to

In the UK, a foetus is considered viable after 24 weeks gestastion, hence why you cannot have an abortion beyond this stage (unless for medical reasons). I don't know if that would be relevant in a case such as this though.

[ZiaAries]

What I should have asked was, 'would YOU convict the murderer of one death or two'.

[Topic Of Gossip]

As far as I know, I don't think an unborn baby has any rights in law as a "person". If that is the case then it should be one murder.

Also, imagine the woman is pregnant with say twins or triplets or octuplets, what would the charge be if they all died?

[H. Franklin Layne]

As far as I know, I don't think an unborn baby has any rights in law as a "person". If that is the case then it should be one murder.

Also, imagine the woman is pregnant with say twins or triplets or octuplets, what would the charge be if they all died?

If given the opportunity to wear the hats of Judge, jury and executioner.....it would be a life sentence in the electric chair!

[Big Ben]

In WWII, the Japanese bayonetted pregnant women in the stomach. How sick is that?

[Shona1969]

I would guess the conviction would be for one murder, but at the time of sentencing the judge would be able to take into consideration any other details and assuming they did know she was pregant, or perhaps even if they didn't, hand down a harsher sentence because if it.

[Lucylastic]

But if the defendant claimed they didn't know the woman was pregnant there would have been no intent to murder the child in which case the sentence might in any event be lesser.

[ZiaAries]

Does the murderer know the woman is pregnant?

Let's say, yes, the murderer does know this woman is pregnant.