ABORTION

[Curvey_Brunette]

Why do parents have the right to decide what's right for their children?

Because unlike animals, human children aren't able to look after themselves until the age of 8 or 9 whereas animals are able to fend for themselves at a very early age.

Why does society have laws?

Because if there were no laws there would be total anarchy, there has to be some level of social control otherwise people would be running around stealing and beating each other up ...... Oh dear! Modern society is lawless

[Caitlain]

So you're suggesting that a woman who sleeps around, falls pregnant and uses abortion as a form of contraception is making a "good choice"?

I never said that. I said that no one else gets to decide what is a "good" choice for someone else. I don't personally think it is a good choice, no, but that is wholly beside the point.

One of the really neat things about being a human is our capacity to make choices for ourselves. In some cases, we make bad choices. But the fact remains that you and I, and the government don't get to (and shouldn't) make choices for us about how we manage our private affairs.

[Curvey_Brunette]

So you're suggesting that a woman who sleeps around, falls pregnant and uses abortion as a form of contraception is making a "good choice"?

I never said that. I said that no one else gets to decide what is a "good" choice for someone else. I don't personally think it is a good choice, no, but that is wholly beside the point.

No it isn't, the only reason some women go through with an abortion is as a form of contraception after a one night stand.

I'm not suggesting it's the main reason but it's still used as a reason.

One of the really neat things about being a human is our capacity to make choices for ourselves. In some cases, we make bad choices. But the fact remains that you and I, and the government don't get to (and shouldn't) make choices for us about how we manage our private affairs.

I am very pro-choice when it comes to abortion. Yes I would of had one if it had of been found that my daughter was in some way disabled as I wouldn't like to leave my sons with the responsibility of her when I get too old to look after her or I die.

But frivolous reasons for termination shouldn't be a choice, the excuses of "I'm not ready to be tied down" or "I can't cope with the responsibility" aren't good reasons for a termination.

It takes a about an hour of your life to organise contraception via a G.P. such as the pill or the deppo shot. It's only a few minutes on the phone to get a repeat prescription, it only takes a couple of minutes to buy a packet of condoms, even less time to put one on.

[Caitlain]

CB, you're missing the point.

YOU don't get to decide what constitutes a legitimate choice for someone else.

What are you going to do, have the woman go through a police interrogation as to how she was using BC, and checking with "witnesses" or something before she's allowed to have an abortion?

VERY FEW women, if any of any statistical significance use abortion as a form of BC.

[Caitlain]

VERY FEW women, if any of any statistical significance use abortion as a form of BC.

I doubt that!

Every "unwanted pregnancy" abortion IS birth control!

Let me correct my statement for you, then. VERY FEW women, if any of any statistical significance use abortion as a regular form of BC.

Happy now?

[Curvey_Brunette]

VERY FEW women, if any of any statistical significance use abortion as a form of BC.

I doubt that!

Every "unwanted pregnancy" abortion IS birth control!

Let me correct my statement for you, then. VERY FEW women, if any of any statistical significance use abortion as a regular form of BC.

Happy now?

Why don't you do some research on this?

Find out the numbers that have an abortion because of a medical reason and compare that number to the ones who have an abortion because the child is unwanted?

[Caitlain]

Why don't you do some research on this?

Find out the numbers that have an abortion because of a medical reason and compare that number to the ones who have an abortion because the child is unwanted?

I am *very* active in the US in political activities to keep abortion legal. I am very versed in the statistics associated with it, at least in this country (and I haven't seen anything that suggests the relative statistics are that much off in the UK).

If you want stats, go to www.guttmacher.org - they have a huge collection.

[Curvey_Brunette]

Why don't you do some research on this?

Find out the numbers that have an abortion because of a medical reason and compare that number to the ones who have an abortion because the child is unwanted?[/i]

I am *very* active in the US in political activities to keep abortion legal. I am very versed in the statistics associated with it, at least in this country (and I haven't seen anything that suggests the relative statistics are that much off in the UK).

If you want stats, go to www.guttmacher.org - they have a huge collection.

I went to that site, clicked on Texas and read this:

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/texas.html

Contraceptive use is a key predictor of women's recourse to abortion. The very small group of American women who are at risk of experiencing an unintended pregnancy but are not using contraceptives account for almost half of all abortions—46% in 2000

So in 2000 46% of women who had abortions had them not for medical reasons, but because the pregnancy was unwanted.

That in itself add credibility to the argument that a high number of women in Texas use abortion as a form of contraception.

I'm sure if anyone bothered to read a little more that similar stats would be found in all of the other states in America based on the fact within a couple of clicks I found information backing what's been said - That some women use abortion as a means of contraception and not for medical reasons.

You've just shot yourself in the foot

[Caitlain]

Why don't you do some research on this?

Find out the numbers that have an abortion because of a medical reason and compare that number to the ones who have an abortion because the child is unwanted?[/i]

I am *very* active in the US in political activities to keep abortion legal. I am very versed in the statistics associated with it, at least in this country (and I haven't seen anything that suggests the relative statistics are that much off in the UK).

If you want stats, go to www.guttmacher.org - they have a huge collection.

I went to that site, clicked on Texas and read this:

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/sfaa/texas.html

Contraceptive use is a key predictor of women's recourse to abortion. The very small group of American women who are at risk of experiencing an unintended pregnancy but are not using contraceptives account for almost half of all abortions—46% in 2000

So in 2000 46% of women who had abortions had them not for medical reasons, but because the pregnancy was unwanted.

That in itself add credibility to the argument that a high number of women in Texas use abortion as a form of contraception.

I'm sure if anyone bothered to read a little more that similar stats would be found in all of the other states in America based on the fact within a couple of clicks I found information backing what's been said - That some women use abortion as a means of contraception and not for medical reasons.

You've just shot yourself in the foot

Aborting a single unwanted pregnancy hardly constitutes using abortion as a form of birth control. Using abortion as a "means of contraception" (which itself is a misnomer since you can't contracept something that has been conceived) means using it as a recurring method of preventing having children. I'm not talking the single (or even a double) instance of an abortion, but rather using it as a recurring way to prevent having children.

Those having abortions for truly medical reasons is low in that instance if that were the case (in TX), since nowhere near 54% of the women there have medically necessary abortions.

[Curvey_Brunette]

Aborting a single unwanted pregnancy hardly constitutes using abortion as a form of birth control. Using abortion as a "means of contraception" (which itself is a misnomer since you can't contracept something that has been conceived) means using it as a recurring method of preventing having children. I'm not talking the single (or even a double) instance of an abortion, but rather using it as a recurring way to prevent having children.

Those having abortions for truly medical reasons is low in that instance if that were the case (in TX), since nowhere near 54% of the women there have medically necessary abortions.

As I've stated, the site says that in 2000 46% of women who had abortions had them not for medical reasons, but because the pregnancy was unwanted.

There are no stats to suggest that all of those 46% were different women.

You made a statement saying that the stats would not support the fact that many woman use abortion as a means of contraception however the stats from your own website link suggest that 46% of women who have had abortions have done just that.

46% Of women in 2000 had sex without protection and on discovering they were pregnant they opted for an abortion to rid themselves of the unwanted pregnancy.

You can wriggle, twist, turn and argue it as much as you like, but the stats support the statement that abortion is used by a lot of women as a form of contraception.

[Caitlain]

..that abortion is used by a lot of women as a form of contraception.

Do you even understand the concept of "contraception?"

It means preventing conception - an abortion is the termination of an embryo or a fetus - in other words, something that has already been conceived.

Therefore, it is impossible to use abortion as a form of "contraception." Get your concepts straight, please.

[Curvey_Brunette]

Do you even understand the concept of "contraception?"

It means preventing conception - an abortion is the termination of an embryo or a fetus - in other words, something that has already been conceived.

Therefore, it is impossible to use abortion as a form of "contraception." Get your concepts straight, please.

Conventional contraception prevents the possibility of having a child.

Abortion prevents the possibility of having a child after a pregnancy is established.

The result in both instances is the same - No child!

Splitting hairs and arguing semantics over terminology does not change the fact that you are wrong.

You stated that very few women used abortion as a form of contraception when your own web link states that 46% of women in 2000 did just that.

I suppose in your view the morning after pill isn't a form of contraception either even though it achieves the same result as condoms, the mini-pill, the pill, caps, UDI's, deppo injections and abortion?

[notastitchonme]

I'm not religious so the God thing is out for me.

While I do think choice is a good thing, I do worry about responsibility. People using it as a contraceptive!

However, an unwanted child has a lot of S*** to deal with - I can't say if that S*** out-weighs not being born? However, you don't miss what you've never had.

As a last resort I think it's OK, but I wouldn't want to make the decision.

If you go down the 'we shouldn't interfere' road then you get into all sorts of trouble. Should we let cancer victims die? Hard if it's your child/dad, etc.

[Caitlain]

The result in both instances is the same - No child!

They are wholly separate concepts, retard. One PREVENTS CONCEPTION, the other DESTROYS A CONCEIVED EMBRYO/FETUS. There is no semantical correlation between the two concepts at all. If you're going to argue about this stuff, you need to have at least a basic understanding of the concepts you're using.

You stated that very few women used abortion as a form of contraception when your own web link states that 46% of women in 2000 did just that.

No, it does not. It states that they use it for non-medicinal prevention of childbirth. That is NOT CONTRACEPTION. It IS "birth control" - all contraceptives are birth control, but not all birth control is contraceptive. This is not that hard to understand (for those with sufficient IQs, of course).

Now, if you want to argue about whether one instance of abortion constitutes people using it as a form of "birth control" then we might get somewhere. My contention is that "birth control" as the term is generally used is a recurring, preventative method of not having children. Therefore, one instance of abortion is NOT birth control. Women can go years using the pill as a form of birth control (note the recurring use of it - that implies that it is being used a "birth control").

People who have multiple abortions are using abortion as a means of birth control. And those people constitute a very, very small minority of people who have abortions. Which was my original point.

I suppose in your view the morning after pill isn't a form of contraception either even though it achieves the same result as condoms, the mini-pill, the pill, caps, UDI's, deppo injections and abortion?

Of course it is a contraceptive, because it......wait for it.............here it comes............PREVENTS CONCEPTION! Therefore, by definition, it is a contraceptive. Do you *still* not see the difference between a contraceptive and abortion?

And what the hell is a "UDI"? Do you mean an IUD?

[Curvey_Brunette]

They are wholly separate concepts, retard.

Once the argument is lost the abuse starts.

You've shot yourself in the foot and proven you're incapable of anything other than you're more than able to make a fool of yourself.