Gerald, Fran and Brian on Motoring

[BrianS]

Most, but not all suburban buses in Sydney have two sets of doors. Government buses use the middle doors at all stops to let passengers alight, but the private buses only use them to unload passengers when the bus reaches the end of its run. But don't ask me why they are different - I don't know.........

Here are a couple of photos of preserved buses (not my photos this time). Some of the double deckers had a door at the front in addition to the rear entrance, but most did not. The single deckers had doors at the front and back.

I won't ask you why Fran!

Are double decker buses still used much in Australia? The engines on the older style buses were very conspicuous - the bus makers of today seem very inventive in hiding away the mechanical parts and maximising the interior space to get the best seating capacity.

Brian

[franfran]

I got curious and made a few enquiries about this, and it seems that the use of the middle doors was reviewed a few years back after a couple of nasty accidents involving school children who got their feet trapped in closing doors when alighting from the buses. The government buses now have cutouts in the corners of the doors so that feet can't get trapped, and also have sensors fitted to the steps, so the driver can tell if there's anyone there. Apparently some private buses have been fitted out with these safety features and some have not. I've been told that some private buses do use the centre doors, but it doesn't seem to happen around where I live.

As for double deckers, there are none that I know of in general revenue earning service, but there are some on tourist routes.

[AnneCook]

Hi Brian

I remember jumping on and off of the platform of the single decker bus going to school. Everybody did it, How times change.

G

[BrianS]

I got curious and made a few enquiries about this, and it seems that the use of the middle doors was reviewed a few years back after a couple of nasty accidents involving school children who got their feet trapped in closing doors when alighting from the buses. The government buses now have cutouts in the corners of the doors so that feet can't get trapped, and also have sensors fitted to the steps, so the driver can tell if there's anyone there. Apparently some private buses have been fitted out with these safety features and some have not. I've been told that some private buses do use the centre doors, but it doesn't seem to happen around where I live.

As for double deckers, there are none that I know of in general revenue earning service, but there are some on tourist routes.

The unpredictability of the human race, particularly children, must make designing anything where there is human interaction very difficult. Interesting how they have dealt with the "trapped feet" problem in Australia.

There's at least one hazard I can think of though in which the car manufacturer really ought to have realised a possible unintended consequence: this concerns electric windows. I don't remember the make but I seem to recall that on the car concerned it was possible to raise and lower the windows with the ignition off. One particular day an unattended toddler in the car raised the window while his head was half in, half out - sadly the outcome was a fatality I believe.

This all happened a few years ago: does anyone know what the make of car was? I do have this vague idea it was either French or Italian.

Brian

[BrianS]

Hi Brian

I remember jumping on and off of the platform of the single decker bus going to school. Everybody did it, How times change.

G

Times certainly have changed Gerald! How did we manage to survive?

Brian

[BrianS]

A long time back on this thread, or it might have been on an earlier one, some readers much younger than Gerald or myself, were amazed to find out that semaphore indicator arms were in vogue before the now universal flashing indicators. I included a video from 'youtube' showing one in operation. Can't find that particular video right now but here is another much the same: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeS-HcZlCl8

Of course, in earlier times, signals were made by hand and these included not only left and right turns but "I'm going to slow down or stop". I took my test nearly 50 years ago and at that time one had to be conversant with these hand signals. Using hand signals meant having a hand off the steering wheel for a significant period of time - not very good from a safety viewpoint, and of course it was important to ensure that the window was wound down first

Another downside was the near invisibility of someone's arm out of a window when driving after dark. As usual when there's a perceived problem someone comes up with a solution and by chance I've just come across this piece in the American magazine 'Popular Science' (dated Oct 1938). I'm not coping with the technology - put Popular Science Oct 1938 into Google and about 4 places up from the bottom of the first page is the link I'm on about. You will need to scroll to page 69. The idea evidently was to have a pair of light bulbs each fitted to a ring on a finger and powered by a battery strapped to your wrist. I'm not too sure that this idea ever caught on .....

Has anyone ever ridden in a car with semaphore indicators or even in a car relying on hand signals? Or better still owned such a car?

Brian

[franfran]

Has anyone ever ridden in a car with semaphore indicators or even in a car relying on hand signals? Or better still owned such a car?

Brian

I once was driving behind a late 1940s (or possibly pre-war) Rover that had them still working - does that count?

[AnneCook]

Hi Brian

My grandad's Morris for sure and an Austin A35 but I wouldn't swear to that.

G

[BrianS]

Has anyone ever ridden in a car with semaphore indicators or even in a car relying on hand signals? Or better still owned such a car?

Brian

I once was driving behind a late 1940s (or possibly pre-war) Rover that had them still working - does that count?

I should think it would Fran!

Gerald, I think that flashing indicator lights came in at about the time of the A35. The preceding Austin A30 had the semaphore arms though I'm fairly sure. I know that I've been in one or more cars as a boy with semaphore indicators - I can still recall the satisfying 'clunk' made by them when they were raised or lowered.

It must have been at about the time that flashing indicator lights were being adopted that steering column stalks started to appear. Having said that stalks aren't maybe so knew. I've not driven a Model T Ford (certainly would like to though!) but think that are a couple of levers immediately behind the steering wheel, one definitely to control the ignition timing and the one on the other side a hand throttle(?). These could be described as forerunners of today's stalks even if they were then serving very different functions!

[AnneCook]

Hi Brian,

I defer to your exoertise here, mine are memories from 8 to 14. Btw did you notice the (lack of )response to my last bit of advice?? I should know better by now lol

G

[BrianS]

Hi Gerald

Being aged 67 means that my motoring memories go back a little further than yours!!

Yes it's a shame that there hasn't yet been a response to your helpful advice on another thread.

Brian

[MargaretRyan]

I thought all these threads had died, but behold they have sprung to life. Good to see some women back on line.

[franfran]

In case anyone wonders what sort of indicators we're talking about, here's a photo I found on the 'net of one on an Austin A40. It's from a page with quite a few photos of one of these cars: http://www.oldclassiccar.co.uk/a40_devon_photos.htm



I just remembered an early recollection I have of of seeing a rather old VW beetle with these too.............

[BrianS]

Thanks for posting the picture of the A40 Devon Fran! That must be one of the clearest photos I've seen of a semaphore indicator. And the link is certainly worth a look, there are a lot of other good photos of this car. The badge "Austin of England" appeared on many of their models at the time and it's interesting that various English county names were used in the different Austins: for instance Devon, Somerset and Hereford.

The early VW beetles certainly had the semaphore arms and they would have been contemporary with the Austin Devon. It would be interesting to know which manufacturer was the first to break ranks and use the now universal flashing indicator lights.

I know some owners of classic cars have been concerned about whether semaphore arms on their own are good enough to indicate direction changes under modern driving conditions. Understandably they want to retain originality and a compromise that seems reasonable and adopted by some is to retain the arms but to add flashing indicators. I can't remember when I last saw a car actually using semaphore indicators, could be some decades ago. I'm starting to feel old!

Brian

[franfran]

Took this photo a week ago at a car show, to show how the old indicators were fitted to convertibles, where there is no door pillar to fit it to. Unfortunately the indicator wasn't operational, so I couldnt get a photó of it in the (for lack of a better description) erect position. The car was a Jowett Jupiter, and the gap in the bodywork is because the bonnet was lifted up partially, and in these cars the whole of the front of the bodywork lifts up for access to the engine.........