Cher luvs her Daughter-Accepts her Daughter for who she is

[ThisMadScientist]

I took this Human Sexuality class at school last year and basically there was a research/statistic that showed that of people who change their sex permanently, only about 1/3 of them actually become happy about it, and a lot of them in the long run commit suicide. It was pretty sad reading about it.

[Guest]

I took this Human Sexuality class at school last year and basically there was a research/statistic that showed that of people who change their sex permanently, only about 1/3 of them actually become happy about it, and a lot of them in the long run commit suicide. It was pretty sad reading about it.

Changing their gender isn't going to change how society reacts to them. Even for the most liberal, we do have preconceived ideas of biological gender. It's like the world of competitive individual sports. Does anyone really think a female-from-male contestant doesn't necessarily have a competitive advantage of the biological differences in muscle performance between men and women? Men are naturally faster while women may have better endurance (on a general level).

Granted Serena Williams can beat a lot of men in tennis but that would be amateurs and not the likes of Nadal, Djokovic, Federer, etc. Sure there was that legendary match between Bobby Riggs and Billie Jean King but their drastic age difference was an equalizer.

The point I'm stressing is that despite the outwardly appearances many of us still consider these transgender as their biological gender. And scientifically, it would be true. Outwardly, there are cross-dressers who look more feminine than Jolie.

Going into relationships, transgenders may have a harder time since an average heterosexual wouldn't want to date an outwardly female but who was originally a man. And a homosexual may have the same attitude but likely to a much lesser extent (as there still is a stigma within male heterosexuals having sexual relationships with another man).

That dynamic may not be a factor at all (I'm not sociologist here). I'm also thinking all the inner turmoil growing up with those gender conflicts can't be purged either. Trauma has a way of lingering well after the source of the problem is gone.

As an aside, there is a recent finding that women with cats have a higher tendency for suicide because of the parasite in cat feces that can infect the cat owner. The parasite can migrate into the brain where it affect the owner's emotional state.

I wonder if this is a chicken-or-the-egg question of which precedes which. Are depressed women more likely to own cats? Or does the cat ownership (via the parasite invasion) affect the mental health of the owner?

[Guest]

I took this Human Sexuality class at school last year and basically there was a research/statistic that showed that of people who change their sex permanently, only about 1/3 of them actually become happy about it, and a lot of them in the long run commit suicide. It was pretty sad reading about it.

I did not know that. Thank you for this information.
And I have to marvel at how quickly public attitudes change. I received my graduate degree a little over a decade ago, and transgender issues were not even on the radar at my very liberal University. Now, its part of the public discourse. Things like this make me realize that we are moving forward in positive and more civilized direction, despite all the anger and hatred that seems to be part of the landscape.

[Guest]

Cher luvs her Daughter-Accepts her Daughter for who she is

That looks like a bit of "mixed" emotions kind of face to me on Cher's side.

I seem to recall that when Chaz revealed her gender issue to her parents, Cher didn't take it as well as Sonny. Chaz and Cher then had a period of discontent between them. So Cher wasn't readily accepting of Chastity becoming Chaz.

And I agree that Chaz doesn't seem at peace even with the transgender transformation (don't know if he has his genitals altered yet).

ITA on Cher not accepting the news of Chaz's lesbianism very well. Of all people I would have thought Cher wouldn't bat an eye at the news but I guess it was difficult for her. Said as much on one of the talk shows. Separate from that I'm not sure why Chaz's weight problems have to be connected to her gender issue. I saw a recent program re obesity and it is becoming an epidemic especially in the USA. It's not like she is an anomaly or putting herself out there as some beauty queen.

[Guest]

Honest not picking a fight or criticizing, just honestly puzzled..

why are posters here or around the web calling Chaz...her, or saying that Cher luvs her DAUGHTER, accept her daughter as SHE is...just one example was the OP's thread title so this was an easy example but the references are everywhere. I have to make a conscioius effort to remember to call Chaz...HIM or Cher's SON, I try hard to refer to Chaz as a masculine identity. Is that the correct thing to do or are there no politically correct rules that I have to try to adhere to? Just in case, I like to know my manners, I figure persons in that circumstance have enough to deal with, without any unintentional shitt from me.


Also, THREADJACK....Chaz and the girlfriend he had when he was a she...split up? Wasn't this something they should have expected if the girlfriend was a lesbian and is attracted to women and now Chaz isn't? I suppose I could have googled but I really can't think of what the key words would be...I was kinda surprised that there wasn't more discussion on the talk show circuit about those circumstances. Gender surgery interferes with the preferences of a partner in a relationship, wouldn't it? It's nice to say that you are in love with the person, but sexual attraction would be changed, I would imagine? Just curious and it's not something I'd have occasion to talk about in RL.

[Guest]

I like people who try not to harm the others like you.

Although I think this whole gender thing these days, especially with Chaz, is not so much of a good idea. She was way more beautiful than her mother back then I truly believe, even though she probably did not see that. And she looks miserable today, this does not seem to have really better her life. I wish her to find the with her pb and peace.

When I see that I think this is what's heading with Shiloh, as people have been discussing here for years, now..

[Guest]

[Guest]

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[guestwolf]

shiloh appears to be an enforced image by jolie to create controversy. the fact that speculation is rampant about a child no where near puberty is abhorrent - but the b*tch (joLie) clearly finds this entertaining. who's to say what this child's identity really is at this point? for this insidious abuse, alone she and the other children should be removed from her care/influence! If Pitt were a real man, his concern for the children would trump that of image/career. This is the primary reason why it's ALL circling the drain (image/career/finances). Hope someone steps in for those kids before more damage is done.

[Guest]

Something also to consider re: suicide risk in transgender, is that growing up transgender does affect the place you take in your family of origin. Even in the most supportive families, there is an element of "you're not who I thought you were/raised you as." And this is the best-case scenario. Many others don't have the support of their families at all, and that rejection takes a toll on mental stability - they don't have that touchstone that a lot of us enjoy, even as adults. I know that who I am to my family is a big part of my identity - as a daughter, as a big sister. And this holds true long after I moved out of the family home. Without that, I probably would be more likely to do something reckless.

[Guest]

:cry:
shiloh appears to be an enforced image by jolie to create controversy. the fact that speculation is rampant about a child no where near puberty is abhorrent - but the b*tch (joLie) clearly finds this entertaining. who's to say what this child's identity really is at this point? for this insidious abuse, alone she and the other children should be removed from her care/influence! If Pitt were a real man, his concern for the children would trump that of image/career. This is the primary reason why it's ALL circling the drain (image/career/finances). Hope someone steps in for those kids before more damage is done.

Actually, it was BRAD PITT who first came up with this nonsense about Shiloh. Remember "Call me John"?
He told the "story" in 2008.

http://www.contactmusic.com/news/shiloh ... hn_1086982

Brad Pitt - Shiloh: 'You Can Call Me John'
18 November 2008

BRAD PITT and ANGELINA JOLIE's daughter SHILOH is in the middle of an identity crisis - she only responds to the name John.

The cute two year old is obsessed with Peter Pan, and loves to pretend she's one of the Darling brothers from the J.M. Barrie story.

Pitt reveals, "She only wants to be called John. John or (brother) Peter. So it's a Peter Pan thing.

[guestwolf]

both those idiots are to blame for what's going on with that kid. all those additions (adoptions & births) and no clear boundaries it's no wonder she has to scream for attention. pitt's verbal diarrhea doesn't help what is clearly little girl lost (from another thread).

on the other hand, while it may be unsettling to see what chaz is going through s/he has made this choice for himself. cher didn't force her into odd looking clothes from a young age to garner attention/speculation.

[Guest]

Speaking of which, VAJ should learn to accept her 'long lost' son for who he really is instead of hating him for being gay.

Actually I rejected him for being a creepy, Luka Magnotta-type cat killer and for the abusive behaviour he exhibited towards his adoptive mother and the fact that he is interested in little more than vice and sodomy, and-and-and.... If i had rejected him for "being gay' I would never have spoken to him at all;I knew he was gay as soon as I saw his picture. But after 5 years of trying to 'get past' all the vice and all the lying, and all the BS, enough was enough.

VAJ

[Guest]

It looks to me like YOU know "very little" about HIM. But then, it's EASY to maintain a facade to "outsiders", as we have seen with Jolie, haven't we?

VAJ

[Guest]

It looks to me like YOU know "very little" about HIM. But then, it's EASY to maintain a facade to "outsiders", as we have seen with Jolie, haven't we?

VAJ

Vaj, i have been reading you for a few years now and I believe you ar religious. So how can you talk like that about your own son ? How do you want him to find a way back to you act like that ? What do you think statements like "5 years of trying is enough"(i simplify) are worth on the day one dies ?

I am disguted by the brand, but before coming to this board to discuss other people's issues I try to clean my own garden first..

Peaceful comment.