What do women think of circumcised guys? Please post

[The Colonel]

Well said. I did start a post for people who wanted to moan about how awful it is that this mutilation is still going on in this day and age...blar blar blar. Go there and post. And yes, it is bloody cleaner! You wouldnt have any idea cos you havent had the procedure but speaking from (another) womans point of view who have had both types in their mouths, I can catagorically say it is cleaner. When you have had both types in YOUR mouth then you can have a say about whether it tastes nicer and cleaner but until then butt out to the other thread.

My eldest son has had the proceedure and I know from what he says.

When women start talking of their ignorant preferences this is the result:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIRANs0eXwI

You should be bloody ashamed of yourselves.

[Bouncy]

Wake up to yourself Colonel. That is a procedure performed on an infant, whom I am assuming did not give his consent. We are telling you what our preference is in MEN!!!!!! M-E-N! A conscious decision made between two consenting adults.

I am not and will not be ashamed of my preference, no matter how much you demand it from me.

[Bouncy]

Since there is much glorification in TomTom's thread by Colonel, I shall also offer my opinion as to his post.

For those who are arguing against what the Colonel is trying to get across are truly missing the big picture.

No. You're missing the big picture. This thread is about personal preference from a woman (women's) point of view. What do they think of circumcised guys? Not what are the medical dangers, what are the legalities, what are the moral issues, what are the religious issues, or any of those other "big picture" points. This was a thread asking women to post their thoughts on circumcised penises.

Opening a post about women's preference for circumcised penises is an affront to men. Why? because the issue is based on the fact that male genital mutilation is condoned by our society, unlike female genital mutilation.

Take a look around the board sunshine. Every single thread on here could be taken as a personal affront to someone. Even the "Good morning" thread could piss off someone who isn't having a very good day. If it bothers you or anyone else as to the content and subject matter of this (or any) thread in question, complain to admin. There have been many threads that have been deleted for this reason. If enough of you complain about what women posting their opinions, you may even be lucky enough to get rid of Female First altogether, as I'm sure there are many, many men out there who feel even having such a label is discriminatory to men and are insulted by it.

As for your description of mutilation, the same can be said for a hair cut, or a piercing, or getting braces on ones teeth and not allowing them to grow as nature intended. You call it mutilation, I call it modification.

So this thread promulgates the notion that it is OK for men to be mutilated. The whole idea should be considered offensive in the first place and should not be treated so lightly.

It does no such thing. It asks a question.

Imagine coming this site and finding a thread like - Is screwing 13 year old pussy better than 18 year old pussy? Then reading lots of men say how much better 13 year old pussy is...get the idea? The notion is based upon an offensive idea.

Correction. That notion is based on an illegal act. Sex with a minor. Huge difference. Find a more suitable analogy.

Even worse are these comments like uncircumcised dicks are unattractive, they are smelly, they are disease prone etc. These types of comments can only serve to make men feel inadequate about themselves and want to go under the knife just to please women. These comments make men believe women would not want them unless they were circumcised. This is the same sick sexist mindset that make women feel the need to have breast implants.

If a man wants to feel inadequate because it's pointed out that other men fail in the personal hygiene department, that's up to him.

Should people be labeled "sick" if they have a preference for a body part to look a certain way? It's sick to have a shoe fetish, or a preference for blonds, or someone who follows a certain religion, or someone with blue eyes, or someone who plays a certain sport, or someone who drives a certain car? No, it's not. It's freedom of choice. Preference.

If this situation was reversed and it was women who were routinely circumcised as children then it would be a big deal. Feminists would herald this as the ultimate symbol of male sexism and it would have been outlawed decades ago. But since men do not have a worthy masculist movement to cry foul then boys continue to be hacked away at and women continue to promote this as a good idea when all that is needed to rectify the "issues" is just proper hygiene.

Reverse sexual discrimination. Not nice is it? Lets not go down the road as to whom has suffered more at the hands of sexual discrimination.

Here are some words from a Jewish lady who gets it. Shame others here don't.

Is there some reason it's important that she's Jewish? Does that somehow put her opinion higher above a Catholic woman, an atheist woman? No, it doesn't. You're just using her religion to underscore your point. Shame you don't get that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even, and especially, when it differs from yours.

"Regular readers know that, despite my Jewiness, I think circumcision is a risky, unnecessary, primitive and mutilating practice. It serves absolutely NO purpose though some camps have tried determinedly for a century now to prove that it has some health advantages. What they've basically done is look for light under rocks - and when they see a glimmer reflecting off some mica, they cry, "Eureka, that's why people 5000 years ago came up with this idea - because they knew something about male health that modern science cannot grasp!"

I don't think so.

So she's decided that circumcision is unnecessary and given her reasons for it. What of it? A marriage ceremony should not be necessary, but for many legal reasons it certainly goes a long way towards greasing the wheels more smoothly when needing medical insurance, visas, making wills, etc. I didn't feel I needed a marriage ceremony, but it's made my life a whole lot simpler because of it. It doesn't determine my emotional commitment to my husband, it's just something the legal and government departments have a preference for.

So it was with great interest and delight that during one of my occasional readings through the Jewish Forward, I discovered there's a tiny but, hopefully, growing number of Jews who feel the same way I do.

It's always nice to know you're not the only one who thinks the way you yourself do. Personally I wouldn't want everyone to think the same as me. It keeps life interesting and more enjoyable when there are differences.

Maintaining old rituals that clearly serve little or NO purpose in modern life is ignoring the notion of progress and rejecting the path we humans are on, towards better and clearer understanding of how the human body works. To my mind, the only difference between circumcising men and performing clitorectomies on women (the procedure that draws such outrage in the allegedly enlightened West) is that men retain adequate functionality to reproduce.

There's something to be said for tradition and rituals. There are many cultural traditions that I still uphold. They serve little or no purpose to modern life, but they are part of who and what I am. I have also embraced new traditions that go counter to the beliefs of my ethnicity. One makes adjustments to improve their own life while doing what they can to ensure that it does not encroach on someone else's choices negatively.

But at what cost? Decreased sensitivity; risk of damage and infection; risk of scarring and even deformity. The single greatest advantage of circumcision is reducing smegma under the foreskin and thus reducing the likelihood of infections or transmission of STDs. But modern hygiene eliminates the NEED to remove the foreskin. All a man needs to do is bathe regularly and remember to soap himself all over. That's it. "

I believe it is up to the one who is circumcised to decide what cost they are willing to pay. Some may prefer a loss of sensitivity if it means it looks the way they want. Some may prefer to risk an initial infection if the end result is as they desire. Some may be willing to appear "deformed" to certain women in the general public if there is a chance that other women will find their circumcized penis far more appealing. Some may prefer to eliminate the chore of constantly cleaning their penis and be smegma free. It's preference and choice. We all have it. At least we should.

[Polgara69]

[The Colonel]

I stand by what I have said.

Your preference which involves harm to a young (or older) individual is quite disgusting.

[Bouncy]

You're entitled to your opinion.

[Cali Lady]

Have never seen(in person) a man who wasn't. Seems the normal thing to me.

[Enuffalready]

Bouncy for President!

[cosmicB]

Is she circumcised?..

[Polgara69]

Thats a question to ask in another thread, not this one.

[The Colonel]

Have never seen(in person) a man who wasn't. Seems the normal thing to me.

The general rule is: Normal = Natural. However, it should be the man who decides what is normal for him and what isn't - whatever that may be.

I have no problem with men/teens getting cut - provided it is their choice, with clear and unbiased information, and without any coercion.

Female "preference" amounts to coercion, whether it is deliberate or not.

[TomTom]

No. You're missing the big picture. This thread is about personal preference from a woman (women's) point of view. What do they think of circumcised guys? Not what are the medical dangers, what are the legalities, what are the moral issues, what are the religious issues, or any of those other "big picture" points. This was a thread asking women to post their thoughts on circumcised penises.

But if the question is based upon the immoral act of butchering boy's penises - and 99% of circumcised men had it done to them without consent - then basing any question of preference on this issue is an affront. If we lived in a society where circumcised men all had the choice of having the procedure then you would be correct. We don’t live in this society so your reasoning is immoral, you just cannot see it because society has not reached the point of acknowledging the immorality of doing this to boys. But that does not excuse you as an individual from ducking the issue when confronted with it.

Lets have a poll - is screwing a woman who has been raped before more fun that one who has not been raped. What a fun poll that would be and don't bother being annoyed or irritated about it because those who are in favor are only stating their preference.....

As for your description of mutilation, the same can be said for a hair cut, or a piercing, or getting braces on ones teeth and not allowing them to grow as nature intended. You call it mutilation, I call it modification.

I am borrowing the term used for female circumcision so I am using the correct terminology. And the examples you list are all cosmetic procedures. Surgically operating on the genitals is a completely different matter and risks ruining the life of that person.

It does no such thing. It asks a question.

Yes a question about an immoral procedure that 99% of men had no choice over. The poll simply normalizes the idea and ignores the whole morality issue underpinning it.

Correction. That notion is based on an illegal act. Sex with a minor. Huge difference. Find a more suitable analogy.

It is illegal precisely because it is deemed immoral - it is the immorality of it that I am describing and comparing.

Tell you what - take your daughter to the hospital and ask a doctor to have her circumcised. Not only will your request be declined but you can expect social services to pay you a visit to see if you are abusing your children.

The fact is you would never dream of circumcising your daughters. Why is that?

If a man wants to feel inadequate because it's pointed out that other men fail in the personal hygiene department, that's up to him.

Great attitude. Lets have a free for all. Lets not be concerned about exposing young, impressionable people desperate to be attractive to the opposite sex to unnecessary behavior. Lets turn our backs on these issues. Anorexia? – who cares about that – its not anyone’s fault or concern women starve themselves to death because they want to be super thin. And lets go all the way and make breast implants available to young girls who feel inadequate that they are still flat chested.

Reverse sexual discrimination. Not nice is it? Lets not go down the road as to whom has suffered more at the hands of sexual discrimination.

So women are more discriminated against so they have the right to ignore discrimination against men. Lets brag about discrimination, who is the bigger victim. After all two wrongs make a right? Men get plenty of sexual discrimination from women, men don’t have a masculist movement to raise people’s awareness of it.

Now an intelligent and empathic response from you would be – as a woman I know all about discrimination and would not want the wrongs that I have experienced because of my gender to be projected onto others. I understand that male circumcision as currently practiced is indefensible and until society reaches a point of equality , the promotion of this issue should be avoided.

Is there some reason it's important that she's Jewish? Does that somehow put her opinion higher above a Catholic woman, an atheist woman? No, it doesn't. You're just using her religion to underscore your point. Shame you don't get that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even, and especially, when it differs from yours.

I am not using her religion to prove her opinion is higher than anyone’s else, that is just your paranoia. Obviously Jews have a religious requirement to circumcise boys thus their indoctrination into the idea is more fundamental than most others. So if a Jewish lady can see the light, why can’t others.

So she's decided that circumcision is unnecessary and given her reasons for it. What of it?

Hello! because it is an unnecessary and immoral act to subject boys to. And in our society we have a tendency to make immoral things illegal. I cannot help you if you cannot see this simple point.

It's preference and choice. We all have it. At least we should.

Except 99% of men never had the choice – that is the whole point. And that is why your support of circumcision, even though unintentional, is wrong because it sends the wrong message and reinforces the normalcy of the procedure and its desirability.

Lets look at another analogy – arranged marriages. Here is a tradition that exists in many cultures which you seem happy to oblige. You are of course completely OK with young girls being married off to men without any say in the matter. You would feel no need to interject and state that this is not an acceptable practice. So if internet sites started discussing how desirable this is and we should bring this tradition back into our society, you would not care. And maybe if it gets discussed long enough and the idea becomes normalized then this can become lawful again. That is where you line of reasoning, or lack thereof, ends up.

You dance around using words like preference and choice when you know well enough that this issue is not about preference or choice but about primitive and unnecessary sexual discrimination. But since its about men, who cares right?

Here is something to think about. How many times have you asked the circumcised men you are having sex with when he got the snip? I guess the answer is never. Why?

1. you don’t care
2. you already know the answer – it was done to him when he was a baby/boy
3. why would you ask? this is normal, no need to think about it

[cosmicB]

Quote: "No. You're missing the big picture. This thread is about personal preference from a woman (women's) point of view. What do they think of circumcised guys? Not what are the medical dangers, what are the legalities, what are the moral issues, what are the religious issues, or any of those other "big picture" points. This was a thread asking women to post their thoughts on circumcised penises."




Ok, you've got "missing the big picture".. and you've got "this thread was about one item", in the same statement...

Big picture means everything to do with a topic.. that's why it's big... It is you who is missing the big picture... It seems you need to keep it down to the little picture... The thread is about penises... That's a big topic, except in Japan, and maybe in most bedrooms...
In the big picture there is preferences, diseases, degrees of cleanliness, life styles, fuking and sucking, abuse, mutilation, cultural qualms, religious qualms, political qualms, technique, medical factors, and more...
In the little pix, it's "do women prefer peeled dics or not"... You can only take it so far on "who likes clean dics or not.. then in comes the rest of the picture... It's just how things work... If you can't handle the big picture working its way into the scene, then restrict yourself to the first couple pages of this thread, and you won't be so confused and overwhelmed...


It's as if you are unable to process thought any greater than one item at a time, without needing to crush everything new that confronts you...
Instead of complaining that the topic is to expansive, find the little parts of it that you can associate with, and stick to discussing those bits, and you find things go a lot easier for you... Leave the things alone that you can't fathom if you are incapable of learning and pursuing new...
I think what I'm saying is, if you can't handle what's happening, then go to a thread you can handle, like: http://www.mickey-mouse.com/

[Polgara69]

Have never seen(in person) a man who wasn't. Seems the normal thing to me.

The general rule is: Normal = Natural. However, it should be the man who decides what is normal for him and what isn't - whatever that may be.

I have no problem with men/teens getting cut - provided it is their choice, with clear and unbiased information, and without any coercion.

Female "preference" amounts to coercion, whether it is deliberate or not.

Ok. Seeing as my boyfriend had his done as a teenager and it was his choice and he is happy with it and he likes it and he likes that he go for a bit longer due to a lack of sensitivity and he doesnt feel mutilated, can I say I like his better?

[The Colonel]

No. You're missing the big picture. This thread is about personal preference from a woman (women's) point of view. What do they think of circumcised guys? Not what are the medical dangers, what are the legalities, what are the moral issues, what are the religious issues, or any of those other "big picture" points. This was a thread asking women to post their thoughts on circumcised penises.

But if the question is based upon the immoral act of butchering boy's penises - and 99% of circumcised men had it done to them without consent - then basing any question of preference on this issue is an affront. If we lived in a society where circumcised men all had the choice of having the procedure then you would be correct. We don’t live in this society so your reasoning is immoral, you just cannot see it because society has not reached the point of acknowledging the immorality of doing this to boys. But that does not excuse you as an individual from ducking the issue when confronted with it.

Lets have a poll - is screwing a woman who has been raped before more fun that one who has not been raped. What a fun poll that would be and don't bother being annoyed or irritated about it because those who are in favor are only stating their preference.....

As for your description of mutilation, the same can be said for a hair cut, or a piercing, or getting braces on ones teeth and not allowing them to grow as nature intended. You call it mutilation, I call it modification.

I am borrowing the term used for female circumcision so I am using the correct terminology. And the examples you list are all cosmetic procedures. Surgically operating on the genitals is a completely different matter and risks ruining the life of that person.

It does no such thing. It asks a question.

Yes a question about an immoral procedure that 99% of men had no choice over. The poll simply normalizes the idea and ignores the whole morality issue underpinning it.

Correction. That notion is based on an illegal act. Sex with a minor. Huge difference. Find a more suitable analogy.

It is illegal precisely because it is deemed immoral - it is the immorality of it that I am describing and comparing.

Tell you what - take your daughter to the hospital and ask a doctor to have her circumcised. Not only will your request be declined but you can expect social services to pay you a visit to see if you are abusing your children.

The fact is you would never dream of circumcising your daughters. Why is that?

If a man wants to feel inadequate because it's pointed out that other men fail in the personal hygiene department, that's up to him.

Great attitude. Lets have a free for all. Lets not be concerned about exposing young, impressionable people desperate to be attractive to the opposite sex to unnecessary behavior. Lets turn our backs on these issues. Anorexia? – who cares about that – its not anyone’s fault or concern women starve themselves to death because they want to be super thin. And lets go all the way and make breast implants available to young girls who feel inadequate that they are still flat chested.

Reverse sexual discrimination. Not nice is it? Lets not go down the road as to whom has suffered more at the hands of sexual discrimination.

So women are more discriminated against so they have the right to ignore discrimination against men. Lets brag about discrimination, who is the bigger victim. After all two wrongs make a right? Men get plenty of sexual discrimination from women, men don’t have a masculist movement to raise people’s awareness of it.

Now an intelligent and empathic response from you would be – as a woman I know all about discrimination and would not want the wrongs that I have experienced because of my gender to be projected onto others. I understand that male circumcision as currently practiced is indefensible and until society reaches a point of equality , the promotion of this issue should be avoided.

Is there some reason it's important that she's Jewish? Does that somehow put her opinion higher above a Catholic woman, an atheist woman? No, it doesn't. You're just using her religion to underscore your point. Shame you don't get that everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even, and especially, when it differs from yours.

I am not using her religion to prove her opinion is higher than anyone’s else, that is just your paranoia. Obviously Jews have a religious requirement to circumcise boys thus their indoctrination into the idea is more fundamental than most others. So if a Jewish lady can see the light, why can’t others.

So she's decided that circumcision is unnecessary and given her reasons for it. What of it?

Hello! because it is an unnecessary and immoral act to subject boys to. And in our society we have a tendency to make immoral things illegal. I cannot help you if you cannot see this simple point.

It's preference and choice. We all have it. At least we should.

Except 99% of men never had the choice – that is the whole point. And that is why your support of circumcision, even though unintentional, is wrong because it sends the wrong message and reinforces the normalcy of the procedure and its desirability.

Lets look at another analogy – arranged marriages. Here is a tradition that exists in many cultures which you seem happy to oblige. You are of course completely OK with young girls being married off to men without any say in the matter. You would feel no need to interject and state that this is not an acceptable practice. So if internet sites started discussing how desirable this is and we should bring this tradition back into our society, you would not care. And maybe if it gets discussed long enough and the idea becomes normalized then this can become lawful again. That is where you line of reasoning, or lack thereof, ends up.

You dance around using words like preference and choice when you know well enough that this issue is not about preference or choice but about primitive and unnecessary sexual discrimination. But since its about men, who cares right?

Here is something to think about. How many times have you asked the circumcised men you are having sex with when he got the snip? I guess the answer is never. Why?

1. you don’t care
2. you already know the answer – it was done to him when he was a baby/boy
3. why would you ask? this is normal, no need to think about it

My views exactly.

But much better put by TomTom than by myself.

And Polly - yes, you are entitled to say you like his, as my wife is entitled to say she likes mine. You are not entitled to take that as a general rule and then say "I prefer circumcised".

There is a HUGE difference between saying you like your husband's (whether it is cut or not) and saying you like something done with it.

As you are females, and probably mothers, I am shocked at how little feeling you have towards baby boys. I wish to protect as many boys as I can from this abuse. All you care about is what you want and sod the man's feelings.

It is child abuse - and for that reason you will never be able to silence me on this issue. I will not stand by and have kids abused.