What would you do?

[Bouncy]

Sounds more like your wearing your pain like a badge of honor (your soo proud of it).

Now that's the first thing you've said that's made a little bit of sense. My childhood was painful. As was a lot of my adult life. But instead of allowing that pain to turn me into a bitter and obnoxious person like you come across, I dealt with it and put it all behind me and now I can show other people who are children of divorce and go through divorce themselves that it doesn't have to ruin the lives of everyone concerned.

You preach otherwise. I show how wrong you are.

You sound like what's her name that just started college and hated her dad because he left her mum.

Perhaps I do. I don't know who this "what's her name" is that you're talking about though. I actually hated my mother for not leaving my father. She claimed each and every time that she would. She made all the promises in the world that she'd take us away from the hell that was their marriage and we'd start again. She got our hopes up that things would get better. But with each new day that came, we were still stuck in the same place. There were endless excuses; she had nowhere to go, nobody to support her, he'd find her and force her to come back. All the excuses I hear from many women here in abusive and unhappy situations.

In the end, it was my father who left and while it hurt to see him go, at the same time it was also good to see him go. Good to see that the fighting WAS actually going to come to an end. It was the best thing he ever did for us and in time I told him so. He became a much, MUCH better father and man once he was no longer fighting and living with my mother. Just because you fail as a spouse does not mean you fail as a parent. My parents were far better at doing that when they weren't married to one another. I appreciate that they finally made that realisation instead of living a lie and forcing us into it along with them.

There were times we all still fought over the years, but we had a better family relationship as a whole. My father and I resolved the issues I had because of it and that allowed me to put all that pain behind me. Will I ever forget it? Absolutely not! Nor should I. It was a valuable lesson for me and one that I learned from. One that made me stronger and one that made me proud to be able to stand up and say "It didn't crush me and make the rest of my life miserable."

She too said her broken home made her stronger.

You almost sound surprised. Does it bother you that there are strong women out there? You're surprised that people overcome adversity? Would she have been better off if the experience turned her into a helpless individual that had to rely on someone else, drugs, therapy, society to get her through life? Would she have been better off if she preached to anyone and everyone contemplating a relationship to steer clear of it because it degrades women?

That's just bullshit to hid the pain.

Then stop bullshitting yourself Fred. Life is painful at times. It doesn't have to be painful all the time. Once you look at what it was that causes the pain and deal with it, it no longer controls you and makes you bitter and need to degrade other people in order to feel better about yourself. It makes you feel good to see other people rise from adversity and stand proud on their own two feet even when life has dealt them a raw hand time after time. You would rather beat them down even further. Why?

And if you really think your healthier... how come you have none of your own kids?

A very personal question, but as I've said I'm not afraid to answer them because I have nothing to fear. I have actually borne a child of my own.

From the time I can remember as a child, I vowed I would never get married and never have children of my own because I didn't want to make anyone as miserable as my brother and I were. He was exactly the same.

I enjoyed life though, at least I thought I did at the time, and made it a hard and fast rule that I would practise safe sex by going on the pill when I became sexually active. What I was unaware of is that when you take a course of antibiotics, the effectiveness of the contraceptive pill is diminished. As a result I found myself pregnant at an early age.

When I told my boyfriend at the time what had happened, he beat me to a pulp hoping to abort the fetus that way. It didn't work. A friend of mine stopped by the following day and saw the state I was in and packed my bags and sent me off to another country, Australia to be exact, where I had extended family.

I didn't want a child and considered abortion very seriously and even made an appointment and had the first psych evaluation necessary in order to see if you're mentally prepared for one. I was. But a cousin of mine that had heard I was in town came and visited me and I told her of my plans. I didn't know that she had a year earlier discovered she was infertile and her and her husband were going through the process of adoption or possible foster care. But it was a long and arduous process.

She asked if I'd consider having the child and giving it up for adoption to her and her husband. She left it to me to decide what part, if any, I would play in my child's life. I still had time to decide on abortion or not. In the end I opted to give birth and give my child to my cousin.

I moved in with her and allowed her to share in the growth of the child. I never thought of it as MY child, I just carried it for her. But it was wonderful to see their joy when I went for ultrasounds or she heard the heartbeat or felt it move. When I was 36 weeks pregnant I developed toxemia. My father had suffered a stroke at the time and it sent my stress levels through the roof. My blood pressure was already a little high at the time, and that was also a contributing factor. Even though I followed instructions and got bed rest, kept calm etc, I still lost the child.

You still have to deliver a stillborn child though. So I went through that as well. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy, and it still hurts to think about, but the pain doesn't rule my life and stop me from being happy. It shouldn't.

I often wonder if I made the right decision to go through with the birth instead of aborting when I had the chance, thereby not having to put myself or her expectant parents through the loss of her. For quite a while I thought I was wrong. But not any more. I made the right decision. It didn't turn out the way everyone wanted. But life doesn't do that all the time, does it?

All of the events in my life have made me stronger. As a result it's made me appreciate just how wonderful it can be when it's "normal". I have a normal life. I know just how rotten life can be and not a day goes by that I don't appreciate what I have or take it for granted.

I didn't plan on raising my son. I didn't plan on his mother dying. I didn't plan on his father or the choices he made prior to or after his birth. You plan your life, but like I said, things don't go according to plan, so you adjust. If you can't or won't adjust, your life will be miserable.

My child has a life I could have only dreamed of. He doesn't know what it's like to live like I did. If he's interested, one day I'll tell him.

Continue to hide your life and bury your pain Fred. For every bitter post you spew here, it gives me confirmation that I am, and should be, proud that I didn't let myself become like you when I had every reason and excuse in the world to.

[Cambridge]

Look, Laura, over 50% of all marriages end in divorce. Second marriages fail in approximately 70% of the cases. Third marriages, in approximately 90% of the cases. You’ve already done yourself a favor in not marrying the guy in the first place. Get out of the relationship, raise your kids and be glad you vacated before he started farting in bed.

[azraelle]

In the end, it was my father who left ... He became a much, MUCH better father and man once he was no longer fighting and living with my mother. Just because you fail as a spouse does not mean you fail as a parent. My parents were far better at doing that when they weren't married to one another. I appreciate that they finally made that realisation instead of living a lie and forcing us into it along with them.

Thank You, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

It softens the guilt I have had over the last 10 years since my wife and I's divorce. And it answers the question I have had over the years as to why my children still love me and still want to talk with me, and see me.

(One of the Mormon prophets [David O. McKay, to be exact] said some time in the 50's that "No other success can compensate for failure in the home". I just have never been able to get past that, until now. Again, Thank You.)

[Fred75]

In the end, it was my father who left ... He became a much, MUCH better father and man once he was no longer fighting and living with my mother. Just because you fail as a spouse does not mean you fail as a parent. My parents were far better at doing that when they weren't married to one another. I appreciate that they finally made that realisation instead of living a lie and forcing us into it along with them.

Thank You, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

It softens the guilt I have had over the last 10 years since my wife and I's divorce. And it answers the question I have had over the years as to why my children still love me and still want to talk with me, and see me.

(One of the Mormon prophets [David O. McKay, to be exact] said some time in the 50's that "No other success can compensate for failure in the home". I just have never been able to get past that, until now. Again, Thank You.)

Very clever. NOT
Becoming better AFTER breaking up the home is NOT success!
McKay point is dead on because he is focused on the reality of the damage to the children. NOT THE PARENTS.
Parents INABILITY to control themselves opens the door for strange men to come in and whack off in front of little girls!

[Bouncy]

In the end, it was my father who left ... He became a much, MUCH better father and man once he was no longer fighting and living with my mother. Just because you fail as a spouse does not mean you fail as a parent. My parents were far better at doing that when they weren't married to one another. I appreciate that they finally made that realisation instead of living a lie and forcing us into it along with them.

Thank You, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

It softens the guilt I have had over the last 10 years since my wife and I's divorce. And it answers the question I have had over the years as to why my children still love me and still want to talk with me, and see me.

(One of the Mormon prophets [David O. McKay, to be exact] said some time in the 50's that "No other success can compensate for failure in the home". I just have never been able to get past that, until now. Again, Thank You.)

Very clever. NOT
Becoming better AFTER breaking up the home is NOT success!
McKay point is dead on because he is focused on the reality of the damage to the children. NOT THE PARENTS.
Parents INABILITY to control themselves opens the door for strange men to come in and whack off in front of little girls!

Azraelle, you're welcome.

So Fred, should the parents continue to raise their children in an unhealthy environment where it's obvious that they cannot or will not control themselves, or should that put themselves in a place where they DO have control? A parent that lacks control is far more dangerous to a child's well being than one who does.

My parents were better people generally apart than they ever were together. My personal experience. Where do you draw your conclusions from, Fred?

And you're forgetting, it's not just strangers who "whack off" in front of little girls. Most of them are violated by someone known to them. Many of them blood relatives.

[Fred75]

In the end, it was my father who left ... He became a much, MUCH better father and man once he was no longer fighting and living with my mother. Just because you fail as a spouse does not mean you fail as a parent. My parents were far better at doing that when they weren't married to one another. I appreciate that they finally made that realisation instead of living a lie and forcing us into it along with them.

Thank You, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

It softens the guilt I have had over the last 10 years since my wife and I's divorce. And it answers the question I have had over the years as to why my children still love me and still want to talk with me, and see me.

(One of the Mormon prophets [David O. McKay, to be exact] said some time in the 50's that "No other success can compensate for failure in the home". I just have never been able to get past that, until now. Again, Thank You.)

Very clever. NOT
Becoming better AFTER breaking up the home is NOT success!
McKay point is dead on because he is focused on the reality of the damage to the children. NOT THE PARENTS.
Parents INABILITY to control themselves opens the door for strange men to come in and whack off in front of little girls!

Azraelle, you're welcome.

So Fred, should the parents continue to raise their children in an unhealthy environment where it's obvious that they cannot or will not control themselves, or should that put themselves in a place where they DO have control? A parent that lacks control is far more dangerous to a child's well being than one who does.

My parents were better people generally apart than they ever were together. My personal experience. Where do you draw your conclusions from, Fred?

And you're forgetting, it's not just strangers who "whack off" in front of little girls. Most of them are violated by someone known to them. Many of them blood relatives.

Azreal and your arguments are all about putting yourself FIRST before the obligations and responsibilities your supposed to have for your children.

I am not going to change my position on that.

[Bouncy]

Azreal and your arguments are all about putting yourself FIRST before the obligations and responsibilities your supposed to have for your children.

I am not going to change my position on that.

My parents put themselves first until they came to the realisation that what they were doing by continuing to stay together was damaging their children. I thank them for finally being selfless and allowing us all to be happy by separating.

I don't want you to change your position. You enjoy your bitterness, so carry on with that for as long as it continues to do so.

[Fred75]

Azreal and your arguments are all about putting yourself FIRST before the obligations and responsibilities your supposed to have for your children.

I am not going to change my position on that.

My parents put themselves first until they came to the realisation that what they were doing by continuing to stay together was damaging their children. I thank them for finally being selfless and allowing us all to be happy by separating.

You can thank the WEAK.
I wont.
It just empowers more weak parents.

[splinkygb]

Laura, if you are happy to spend the rest of your life with a slob then stick with him! Otherwise, move on!

Age is not the issue here.

[Fred75]

My parents put themselves first until they came to the realisation that what they were doing by continuing to stay together was damaging their children. I thank them for finally being selfless and allowing us all to be happy by separating.

Selfless parents would have stayed together.

They therefore did what was best for them...breaking up.
Not what was best for you.... setting aside their differences for the sake of the children.

Selfless; altruistic: showing unselfish concern for the welfare of others
That's done at the start... not the finish of the relationship.

[Bouncy]

My parents put themselves first until they came to the realisation that what they were doing by continuing to stay together was damaging their children. I thank them for finally being selfless and allowing us all to be happy by separating.

Selfless parents would have stayed together.

They therefore did what was best for them...breaking up.
Not what was best for you.... setting aside their differences for the sake of the children.

Selfless; altruistic: showing unselfish concern for the welfare of others
That's done at the start... not the finish of the relationship.

It's about time you got over my parents Fred. I did and it made me a much happier person. You're still bitter and judgmental and will remain so until you can get past all the hatred in yourself for them.