Would getting rid of the monarchy give Britain a gr

[cosmicB]

Great that you can't prove god...

So what if I got blocked out by some forum owners who can't handle any truth.. big deal!.. That was the most insignificant part of that post.. and you are clinging to it like it's of value... All you're doing is trying to pick one tiny inconsistency, and label me that, to enable your "thinking" to discount all I've published... I've met your type everywhere... "Hey Look!.. He's got a hole in his sock, so he can't be real"... Or, "Hey Look!, he doesn't like that black man, so he's prejudice, so he can't be sincere, nor truthful"...

Here!.. I'll give you some of my prejudice's, so you can get out of this easy... Third last time I visited Detroit, I stopped for gas, just inside the States, at a Phillips66... I used their pristine washroom, then stopped in their little snack-bar for some treats... then needed to use the washroom again, to wash the sticky off my fingers from the ice cream sundae... The garage attendant looks at me extremely apologetic, and suggests I may use the ladies washroom if I so wish, because of an incident he was powerless to control"... Just then two young black males exit the men's washroom... I enter, to find that once pristine washroom is now totally trashed... There's poop all over the toilet seat, and walls, and floor, and sink, and mirror... The toilet roll is unwound, and all over everything... The water is left running full, plugged with lots of poopy paper... There's poop and wet-paper everywhere... The little room now needs a high pressure steamhose to clean it out... Just looking at that mess made my head feel like it was spinning inside.. never saw that before...
I used my car's windshield washer to wash my hands... Now I'm beginning to understand the war between the blacks and whites in America... WoW! I neverv would have guessed...
Ten years later, my neighbor in Calgary, a black man, asked if he could use my washroom... I said "Not a chance in hell!"...

One black man neighbor asked if he could use my phone for an urgent call... A week later I get the phone bill.. he had called Jamaica for a twenty minute call, in prime time... cost me 27 bucks...

Last time I visited Detroit, I was strolling right in the middle of downtown, where all the building windows are still boarded-up after "black day in july"... I sees this tall black man making a beeline for me... I sees a glint of sunlight reflect off a blade, from half a block away, and rushes in to a restaurant... The black dude enters the restaurant, and glares at me, buys six packs of gum, and leaves... A year ago I sees that same black man on most-wanted... He got apprehended by the FBI, for a long string of home invasion style rape/murders across the States from Detroit to California... I bet he even murdered in Windsor Ontario... I'll never forget those wicked eyed when he glared at me in the restaurant...

In Hamilton Ontario, I picked up a huge black man hitchhiking... He tried to rob me... I had my pistol with me that time...

In Calgary a black man robbed my storage unit...

In Vancouver a black man robbed items from my flea-market tables...

In Richmond BC, I saw three blacks exiting a store at 3:PM.. with their arms full of stolen merchandise...

At a biker party a biker's enforcer black man held a threatening sword to my throat...

When I was 13, on my way biking to school, a black highschool guy, sitting on a bench with his buds, spit a huge gob that landed on my pantleg...

In little school the schoolyard bully, a six foot black guy, got hired by the principle nun to beat me up in the school yard... I found him beating on my little brother... At 4-foot ten, I pulled him off my bro, and had to reach with my all to slug his lip open and bleeding... I followed him into the school, and watched the nun pay him five bucks, and a bag of candy for it...

My one and only date with a black lady, I got crabs just by sitting on her furniture...

In Smithers BC I met a black American soldier on his way to Alaska... He told me how he used military explosive charges to derail the northbound train, so he and his buds could easily rob things from the Sears car...

This list goes on and on...

Every black person I met in the past 40-years has, or has tried, to harm me in some way... I ain't prejudice.. I'm just not into what they are doing... I try to avoid those confrontations these days, by avoiding blacks... Maybe there are good blacks, but I haven't met any...

___________________


So what single-thing do you think it is that christians cling-to in accepting the existence of a god..? and why?..

[cosmicB]

I don't start the flame wars... I defend myself, and finish them...
Usually a flame war gets started by some asshole with a migraine, cussing me out and slandering me, in numbly defending their unfounded belief structure from truth and reality, because their bible tells them to...

Generally the flame wars are started by christian people who haven't got their minds switched on... All they know is what they been taught by church, school, hearsay, and teevee... They live their whole pitiful lives, not having initiated and processed one single new thought on their own in a whole lifetime...

[myron myron]

I don't start the flame wars... I defend myself, and finish them...
Usually a flame war gets started by some asshole with a migraine, cussing me out and slandering me, in numbly defending their unfounded belief structure from truth and reality, because their bible tells them to...

Generally the flame wars are started by christian people who haven't got their minds switched on... All they know is what they been taught by church, school, hearsay, and teevee... They live their whole pitiful lives, not having initiated and processed one single new thought on their own in a whole lifetime...

Here's my take.

If one person thinks you're an ass, you can dismiss that person as the ass.

If two people think you're an ass, you can dismiss them both as asses.

But there's a tipping point when many people think you are an ass independently of each other, that it's time for you to get fitted for a saddle on your back.

[Gibbous Moon]

There's probably a bigger ground swell of opinion in the UK (or England) for changing the national anthem than there is for a British motto.

GM

On what do you base that comment?

I've heard a number of my fellow citizens discuss the need to change the national anthem. Some English, some Scottish, some British. I've been in those conversations myself. It's a topic of general discussion.

http://thecep.org.uk/news/?p=334

Should we change the anthem, if so what? Jerusalem is a front runner for a replacement (English) national anthem. We don’t sing God Save the Queen at Murrayfield. In fact the best thing about last Sunday’s game was the 1st verse of Flower of Scotland being sung a cappella by 60,000 Scots. Fair made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end.

There are two English people I know well. One is a Christian republican and the other an atheist monarchist. At rugby games the republican sing “God save our Team” and the monarchist “Rob save our Queen”. The Rob being Rob Andrews.

I've never heard anyone mention a British Motto.


GM

[Topic Of Gossip]

It seems Prince Andrew has entered the Iraq debate...

BBC News - "Prince Andrew rebukes US on Iraq..."

The Duke of York has criticised the US administration for failing to listen to advice from Britain on how to avoid problems following the war in Iraq.

Prince Andrew said the war had led to a "healthy scepticism" in Britain towards what was said in Washington.

I thought this was interesting as it's quite rare for a member of the monarchy to give such forthright political views.

[myron myron]

It seems Prince Andrew has entered the Iraq debate...

BBC News - "Prince Andrew rebukes US on Iraq..."

The Duke of York has criticised the US administration for failing to listen to advice from Britain on how to avoid problems following the war in Iraq.

Prince Andrew said the war had led to a "healthy scepticism" in Britain towards what was said in Washington.

I thought this was interesting as it's quite rare for a member of the monarchy to give such forthright political views.

I daresay it is even more rare for the “forthright political views” of a member of the British monarchy to be paid any heed in Washington, D.C.

It is unclear why the Prince believes "the US should have learned lessons from British colonial history." The U.S. neither intends to make Iraq an American colony nor ever harbored imperialistic designs that would make British colonial history directly apposite. If anything, the present internecine hostilities and instability in Iraq are largely the creature of British colonial history, to wit: Britain created Iraq essentially by drawing random boundary lines on a map without regard to the ancient hostilities of groups that found themselves within those boundaries.

Given that the Prince is neither elected nor appointed by the British government, has no legal power to affect British policy, and is in America ostensibly “to promote British business in the US,” his criticism of American foreign policy and military strategy/tactics on American soil is inappropriate and likely counterproductive to the stated purpose of his visit.

And if America were inclined to take advice from the British, it certainly would not be from a Prince who is neither a military genius nor a war hero nor an expert on British colonial history nor a senior military officer.

I am more interested in the final paragraph of the BBC story where “the Prince also said the 1982 Falklands War changed him ‘out of all recognition’ and left him with a ‘different view of life’.” I would like to know how so.

[Gibbous Moon]

If you are going to occupy someone else’s country and then change it for all intents and purposes you are colonising it. From their point of view at least. Why should they be expected to even believe that you intend to go home?

There’s certainly enough of a parallel in the combination of military, social and political effort (the hearts and minds bit) to make a bit of study worth while. He also referenced our experience in counter-insurgency operations, something we’ve been doing with more success than most for hundreds of years.

Whilst he’s not a senior officer not a “hero” he has more military experience than George W Bush. He was asked for his view and gave it, as is his right. Whether you guys choose to listen to it is up to you.

I think the recent comments by an American general that British forces in Afghanistan were not experienced in counter-insurgency operations were probably more counter productive.

GM

[The Colonel]

It seems Prince Andrew has entered the Iraq debate...

BBC News - "Prince Andrew rebukes US on Iraq..."

The Duke of York has criticised the US administration for failing to listen to advice from Britain on how to avoid problems following the war in Iraq.

Prince Andrew said the war had led to a "healthy scepticism" in Britain towards what was said in Washington.

I thought this was interesting as it's quite rare for a member of the monarchy to give such forthright political views.

I daresay it is even more rare for the “forthright political views” of a member of the British monarchy to be paid any heed in Washington, D.C.

It is unclear why the Prince believes "the US should have learned lessons from British colonial history." The U.S. neither intends to make Iraq an American colony nor ever harbored imperialistic designs that would make British colonial history directly apposite. If anything, the present internecine hostilities and instability in Iraq are largely the creature of British colonial history, to wit: Britain created Iraq essentially by drawing random boundary lines on a map without regard to the ancient hostilities of groups that found themselves within those boundaries.

Given that the Prince is neither elected nor appointed by the British government, has no legal power to affect British policy, and is in America ostensibly “to promote British business in the US,” his criticism of American foreign policy and military strategy/tactics on American soil is inappropriate and likely counterproductive to the stated purpose of his visit.

And if America were inclined to take advice from the British, it certainly would not be from a Prince who is neither a military genius nor a war hero nor an expert on British colonial history nor a senior military officer.

I am more interested in the final paragraph of the BBC story where “the Prince also said the 1982 Falklands War changed him ‘out of all recognition’ and left him with a ‘different view of life’.” I would like to know how so.

War changes people myron.

Even though he was not in "much" danger himself.

[myron myron]

In reply to Gibbous, I disagree that "if you are going to occupy someone else’s country and then change it for all intents and purposes you are colonising it." Under that definition, the U.S. colonized Japan and West Germany after World War II, which is not the case.

Here is the complete International Herald Tribune piece which is summarized in the BBC story:

From Prince Andrew, critical words for U.S. on Iraq

By Stephen Castle

Monday, February 4, 2008

LONDON: While Prince Andrew declares himself a fan of the United States - and his cellphone ring tone comes from the American TV drama "24" - the man who is fourth in line to the British throne has some critical words for America's Iraq policy and thinks that Washington should have listened to advice from London.

In a rare Buckingham Palace interview ahead of his departure Tuesday for a 10-day U.S. trip to support British business, the prince described the United States as Britain's No. 1 ally but conceded that relations were in a trough. There are, he added, "occasions when people in the U.K. would wish that those in responsible positions in the U.S. might listen and learn from our experiences."

The prince has a full-time role as a trade envoy for Britain but for 22 years he was in the Royal Navy, serving as a helicopter pilot during the Falklands conflict, and Iraq is a preoccupation.

Because of its imperial history, Britain has experienced much of what the United States is going through, Prince Andrew said.

"If you are looking at colonialism, if you are looking at operations on an international scale, if you are looking at understanding each other's culture, understanding how to operate in a military insurgency campaign - we have been through them all," he said. "We've won some, lost some, drawn some. The fact is there is quite a lot of experience over here which is valid and should be listened to."

Prince Andrew's view that post-invasion chaos in Iraq could have been avoided if President George W. Bush's administration had listened more is widely shared in Britain. Geoff Hoon, the former British defense secretary, has said that British views on Iraq were ignored in the decisions to outlaw the Baath Party and dissolve the Iraqi military.

The fallout from Iraq has fueled, the prince argues, "healthy skepticism" toward what is said in Washington, and a feeling of "why didn't anyone listen to what was said and the advice that was given."

After all, British views had been sought - "it's not as if we had been forcing that across the Atlantic."

The prince, 47, says it was an adjustment to go from a life in the navy to being a figurehead for business as special representative for international trade and investment, the role he took on in 2001. His office has reminders of his former life, including paintings of 19th-century naval scenes.

"I was the glamorous one dressed in a uniform who flew his helicopter and I was there to defend, to be an instrument of Her Majesty's government whenever and wherever they so chose. And I thought it was frightfully glamorous," he said.

He added, "When you then come out and go into the business world, actually you realize that the real people who are actually making the United Kingdom what it is are the people who are doing business."

The Falklands War in 1982 was a formative experience and one that, he says, changed him "out of all recognition" and left "a different view of life." Since then he has been to Argentina, visited the country's navy and found himself at a memorial to the Belgrano, an Argentine warship sunk by the British that resulted in the loss of 368 lives.

Prince Andrew says he was very fortunate to marry Sarah Ferguson; they divorced in 1996 after their 10-year marriage "didn't go quite according to plan." The prince speaks warmly of his ex-wife and praises her success in the United States, where her weight-loss campaigning and other activities are reported to have cleared her substantial debts.

"We have managed to work together to bring our children up in a way that few others have been able to do and I am extremely grateful to be able to do that," he said.

Though periodically portrayed by the British tabloids as a playboy, Prince Andrew is regarded as the most affable of the queen's children.

The only faint signs of irritation in the interview last week appeared when asked about his travel expenses, which have been criticized by the British media. They are, he says, a "little tiny spot in the ocean by comparison to many people."

The trauma that followed the 1997 death of Diana, Princess of Wales, underlined the need for the British royal family to modernize, and Prince Andrew's transformation into a trade envoy seems part of that process.

His role involves helping small British businesses make the right contacts, meeting influential trade partners, sometimes lobbying on specific contracts and selling the merits of his country as a location for investment. Britain, he says, is "probably the most open free market economy in the world." That is a message he will carry to Florida, California, Georgia and New York.

Since he does not close deals, it is difficult to quantify the value of his work. But Sir Digby Jones, the British minister for trade promotion who will accompany him, describes the prince as very effective.

"He gets in to see people because he is the son of the queen. The U.K. would be foolish not to use this."

Ironically, it falls to a member of the royal family to dispel the image of Britain as an old-fashioned, class-ridden, society. British businesses are, Prince Andrew says, "a good deal more discreet - they're not as brash as perhaps U.S. companies are - so you might not see the outward vestiges of entrepreneurialism that is actually going on here."

Link: http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/02/04/america/andrew.php

There is no indication that anyone specifically asked Andrew for his "view" about American actions in Iraq. The IHT story states that "the prince has a full-time role as a trade envoy for Britain," though it is not clear who pays him. In his present role, even if he were directly asked to assess America's actions in Iraq, it would be incumbent upon Andrew not to answer such an improper question. The IHT story does state that "British views had been sought" by the Americans, but it nowhere states that Prince Andrew's views were sought at any time.

That Andrew "has more military experience than George W Bush" is of no moment. Andrew didn't fight in Iraq. Being a former British Navy helicopter pilot does not qualify Andrew to criticize an American President's conduct of an ongoing war, particularly in Andrew's present role and the stated purpose of Andrew's visit to America.

Regardless whether they are correct or incorrect, "the recent comments by an American general that British forces in Afghanistan were not experienced in counter-insurgency operations" were not out of line if the American general is presently active and particularly if he has knowledge about the situation in Afghanistan.

I do agree that Britain has more experience historically in counter-insurgency operations than America, but I question the applicability of Britain's counter-insurgency experience from decades and even centuries ago to the war in Iraq in the 21st century world of instant global communications. If the U.S. employed in Iraq the counter-insurgency tactics Britain employed in the Sudan, Afghanistan, Malaya, China, India and the Boer War, Western Europe and Britain itself would be whinging in the UN and all over the airwaves about "war crimes" and "crimes against humanity." The world is a different place now.

That said, if it is true that "Geoff Hoon, the former British defense secretary, has said that British views on Iraq were ignored in the decisions to outlaw the Baath Party and dissolve the Iraqi military," then I would agree that the Americans were clearly wrong in not heeding that wise British advice. In my view, outlawing the Baath Party and dissolving the Iraqi regular military were America's two most critical mistakes and have come very close to snatching defeat from the jaws of an overwhelming military victory. Although I still believe that at the end of the day America will succeed in pacifying Iraq and transforming it into a semblance of democracy, those two critical mistakes at best unduly complicated and lengthened the process at the cost of many American and British and Iraqi lives; at worst, they may have rendered ultimate success impossible.

[The Colonel]

That's why Britain is the second most powerful nation in the world.

[cosmicB]

"War changes people."

Maybe war is people who can't change...
Maybe war is stagnant people holding everything back from change, because they fear that any change means the end of the world.. because all they know is that we are born, and we live till we die... As far as their thinking goes, there isn't anything else between birth and death... They are like the clam that sticks itself to a rock for the duration... Move the clam's rock just a little, and it goes into convulsions, spitting up everything inside in random discord, similar to a baby burping up, like myron does when ever anything threatens change... Now you can see how the flame wars are started, as in myron's last childish post about her ass and saddle, whatever all that gibberish was..? Me thinks that was all just for myron, using me as a mirror, telling herself what she feels about how she treats others... Maybe she was referring to her huge wide bum..? I'm bets myron went to church on Sunday, just to impress her acquaintances, and constituency.. in that she actually believes her prayers actually mean something.. I wonder what she believes her prayers do.. but I really don't need to know... To hear it would probably make me want to bolt and run to escape her childish insanity... I see in myron, a three year old in a fat-ass aging adult body.. Her silhouette shows a fat ass pear-shaped female, lurking in the shadows, ready to pounce on little creatures who happen to come to near to her fangs and claws... I'm wondering if there's a significant quantity of major vulture and spider DNA genes in myron's bloodline..? Probably... I find myself approaching myron's post the same ways I approach blackwidows, just before I risk touching their backs... I see myron in the same light as I see the house-cat that you are petting, suddenly flips-around, and sinks its teeth deep into your hand, and starts clawing at your hand and arm with a vengeance, like how cats play with small critters... a typical politician... like in how they smile in your face, whilst ripping out one of your thick-veins to suck your warm blood through a flexi-straw...


In topic Britain changing it's anthem...
Just changing a superficial tune, that says "we're oh so good, look at how good we are, even god needs and wants to save our queens from barbarous invaders".. does nothing to change anything within the structure of the corporate national entity... For change to be of any value, change would need happen at the very core of the nation's foundation, and grow outward into the system from the core, smooth and evenly...

I would really like to know what Britain's core is.. besides all that old history we've learned of Britain... I'm wondering if even Britain knows what her core is after so many centuries of barbaric and religious wars...

[cosmicB]

Instead of wishing for a new British anthem.. why not start building one from the the love Britains feel for their homeland and for each other... Tell it like it is now...
Maybe run a nationwide contest to create a new anthem, like in how Canada did with to get its new flag... Some school kid won the prize for his maple leaf flag sketch...

First make a list of all the positive traits of Britain...
Add all you want Britain to become...


Britain dumped all its conquered little nations, so now Britain is again an island in a world of continents...

Britain is the Euro's master...

Britain is definitely a monarchy...

Why not list all the great British cities in the song...

Since the Beatles were a major part of the present British culture, mention them in the tune by giving the tune a bit of a recognizable Beatles music style... and a few of the other great musicians in Britain's recent glory...

Maybe even create a new British flag to suit the new anthem...

Maybe create a new flag first, and the anthem will just fall into place...

Probably the only way to even begin to implement a fitting new Britain anthem and flag would be to first eliminate the monarchy...

I wonders how the monarchy reading all this mess feels about it all...

How close to the monarchy are you Mr. Colonel..?

[The Colonel]

How close to the monarchy are you Mr. Colonel..?

I'm not sure what you mean by "how close".

Do you mean what are my opinions of the monarchy, or what is my involvement with them?

[cosmicB]

T'was a general's statement.. you pick...

[The Colonel]

T'was a general's statement.. you pick...

While I believe the monarchy is technically undemocratic, it is nevertheless a very important part of our constitution and one that I value.

I have met the Queen, Philip, Charles, Anne and Andrew. The Queen on numerous times (obviously twice collecting my CBE and DSO). People usually don't get to speak with the Queen for very long, but as a HMI she was interested in military matters and asked various questions, so I was lucky on many occassions to speak with her at quite a length. She is very nice and also funny, in my view she represents Britain incredibly well and is an asset to these islands.